Referendum on its way

wotsthat

I would've thought a debate about what the government would like to re-negotiate would have been a more constructive use of time and effort.

kwmlondon

Let's have a referendum on the referendum. Yes or no to the question.

GhIFA

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I think they do.

Question Time for example keeps going on about the EU. No ones being a racist or even using the language. It's just got to people now. More so I guess as it's being used by our government as a reason for our econmic woes.

Question time is on tonight. There will likely be another discussion on it, and none of it involves the sort of talk you mention.

It seems to me a genuine concern, and writing off the growing number of people with that concern as rabid sun readers or racists of some sort is only going to fuel it further.

A poll in the Guardian a couple of days ago showed that the number of people who would definitely vote to leave the EU, or would probably vote to leave the EU has actually fallen since December, which would suggest it's actually not a growing concern.

Like I said, it's a storm being whipped up by certain sections of the Media and tory mp's whose only aim is self-preservation. People will vote tory if this is the most important issue to them and we'll get a referendum in 2017.

GhIFA

angrypirate wrote: »

I disagree, but even if it is a minority lets do some numbers:
Say the minority is 20% of the electorate, lets assume 50% of these are already Tory voters. This means 10% of the total electorate it matters to and are not currently Tory voters. If even half of these switch to vote Tories then that would probably be enough to cost Labour the General Election in 2015.

I don't disagree with the maths, I just don't see how this shows that most people aren't ambivalent about it. All it shows is that a small number of people could make a significant impact on the result of the election. I think most people think there are more important things that the government should be focussing their time and effort on at present.

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

I would've thought a debate about what the government would like to re-negotiate would have been a more constructive use of time and effort.

Only if people wish to undergo renegotiations.

If people want out, negotiations are a complete waste of time.

We need to offer the people a say to find out what they want. We can't simply guess that what people actually want is a renegotiation. Just as we can't simply guess that most want to stay in.

A simple vote would give us the answers. Then we can plan based on that. Don't know why so many are against it to be honest. All I can figure out is that people don't want the answer to be "out" and therefore, don't want to allow any poll to take place.

Graham_Devon

GhIFA wrote: »

A poll in the Guardian a couple of days ago showed that the number of people who would definitely vote to leave the EU, or would probably vote to leave the EU has actually fallen since December, which would suggest it's actually not a growing concern.

Like I said, it's a storm being whipped up by certain sections of the Media and tory mp's whose only aim is self-preservation. People will vote tory if this is the most important issue to them and we'll get a referendum in 2017.

That's just the guardian though. We have to encompass everyone. Not just a certain section of society reading a certain paper.

And yes, that means including those who read the daily mail aswell as those who read the guardian. In a democracy no one persons vote is more important than anothers.

mcfisco

Just have the referendum on 7/5/15 along with the general election
That way the various parties could pitch their ideas on the subject and be elected or otherwise on the strength of it.
While we're at it, we may as well have one on Trident and anything else that's a bit contentious save a bit of money to boot.

Mr._Pricklepants

A referendum is a bad idea, but I accept it's unavoidable.

The subject matter is simply too complex for the ordinary citizen to understand.

It would be nice if we could have a balanced and informed debate, but I'm not keeping my hopes up.

I fully expect the anti EU press to go into overdrive pre-referendum with nonsense about the EU licensing seeds, banning curvy bananas or outlawing inches and feet. And most importantly - those pesky immigrants.

Government should govern and not pass the hot potato to an uninformed electorate to decide on economically vital issues.

Call me elitist or undemocratic now

GhIFA

That's just the guardian though. We have to encompass everyone. Not just a certain section of society reading a certain paper.

Ah, got you - so we can dismiss anything that doesn't fit in with your view? So the people should have a say, but only if they say what you want them to?

In a democracy no one persons vote is more important than anothers.

But can be less important if you read the "wrong" paper.

Recent polls suggest that this is not the key issue for the majority of people at the moment - and for those who it is, they'll get a chance to reflect that in the GE in two years.

Mallotum_X

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I think they do.

Question Time for example keeps going on about the EU. No ones being a racist or even using the language. It's just got to people now. More so I guess as it's being used by our government as a reason for our econmic woes.

Question time is on tonight. There will likely be another discussion on it, and none of it involves the sort of talk you mention.

It seems to me a genuine concern, and writing off the growing number of people with that concern as rabid sun readers or racists of some sort is only going to fuel it further.

The typical viewer or audience member of Question time doesn't really reflect the typical adult in the UK though. Most people are not engaged but many of these will still vote, without having any real understanding of what any of the issues may be.