Referendum on its way

mcfisco

Anyway, didn't we have all this nonsense the last time the Tory back benchers kicked off?
Goldsmith even started his own party - The Referendum Party - I'm sure they could dig him up and resurrect it.
They even had their own video, Protect and Survive
Or was that one about Armageddon? Whatever, the tone of doom and destruction was similar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOywAby9oaQ

Graham_Devon

GhIFA wrote: »

Ah, got you - so we can dismiss anything that doesn't fit in with your view? So the people should have a say, but only if they say what you want them to?

I specifically stated everyone should have a vote and no ones vote is more important than another.

How on earth you take from that "so we should dismiss them then as it doesn't fit your view" is uterly beyond me.

GhIFA

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I specifically stated everyone should have a vote and no ones vote is more important than another.

How on earth you take from that "so we should dismiss them then as it doesn't fit your view" is uterly beyond me.

I took it from the way you dismissed the poll at the very beginning of your post because it was in The Guardian.

Sampong

Mr._Pricklepants wrote: »

A referendum is a bad idea, but I accept it's unavoidable.

That makes democracy a bad idea then.

Mr._Pricklepants wrote: »

The subject matter is simply too complex for the ordinary citizen to understand.

That's why an open, honest, and fair debate needs to be held. No Amy Rutland Question Time style carp...lay the facts out for the public. The wisdom of crowds will do the rest.

Mr._Pricklepants wrote: »

It would be nice if we could have a balanced and informed debate, but I'm not keeping my hopes up.

Balanced and informed debate on EU membership has been stifled by those who want to stay in.

Mr._Pricklepants wrote: »

I fully expect the anti EU press to go into overdrive pre-referendum with nonsense about the EU licensing seeds, banning curvy bananas or outlawing inches and feet. And most importantly - those pesky immigrants.

Maybe, but for every Europhile economist there is a Eurosceptic economist who should be able to put forward more reasoned arguments than the "nonsense" you refer to. A lot of that "nonsense" is EU red tape that restricts businesses. So let both have their say through official channels.

Mr._Pricklepants wrote: »

Government should govern and not pass the hot potato to an uninformed electorate to decide on economically vital issues.

Hmm sounds remarkably similar to a dictatorship. Hope we don't go too far down that route - I enjoy my freedom.

Mr._Pricklepants wrote: »

Call me elitist or undemocratic now

You are elitist and undemocratic.

morag1202

Mr._Pricklepants wrote: »

A referendum is a bad idea, but I accept it's unavoidable.

The subject matter is simply too complex for the ordinary citizen to understand.

It would be nice if we could have a balanced and informed debate, but I'm not keeping my hopes up.

I fully expect the anti EU press to go into overdrive pre-referendum with nonsense about the EU licensing seeds, banning curvy bananas or outlawing inches and feet. And most importantly - those pesky immigrants.

Government should govern and not pass the hot potato to an uninformed electorate to decide on economically vital issues.

Call me elitist or undemocratic now

I was in my early 20's in 1975 and freely admit that, at the time, I did not fully understand the issues.

In the end I voted to stay in based mainly on my gut reaction that anything which united the far left nutters and the far right
nutters had to be a bad thing

chewmylegoff

The idea that the electorate is too stupid to decide whether or not we should stay in Europe is probably right. However, anyone who thinks that politicians are intelligent enough to make the right decision for us is DEFINITELY too stupid to have a vote.

Thrugelmir

Much will happen in Europe over the next 3 years. So Europe might well have to reform itself. As currently it's broke. In more ways than one.

RJP33

I think people started to actually care pretty recently about Europe as the link between immigration, unemployment in a recession and free movement of people became apparent and particularly when the Eurozone got into its mess and has essentially held back Britain for the past 2 years.

Unfortunately saying it’s not an issue that affects our everyday lives isn’t actually true, it underpins the economy and immigration both of which are critical issues to voters. With Romania and Bulgaria coming onboard in 2014, this isn’t going away anytime soon.

Re-negotiation will inevitably get a few minor concessions such as opt outs to the WTD, but nothing of substance such as freedom to create our own free trade deals and freedom of moment, so this really should just be added to the 2015 election paper.

armour

Mr._Pricklepants wrote: »

A referendum is a bad idea, but I accept it's unavoidable.

The subject matter is simply too complex for the ordinary citizen to understand.

It would be nice if we could have a balanced and informed debate, but I'm not keeping my hopes up.

I fully expect the anti EU press to go into overdrive pre-referendum with nonsense about the EU licensing seeds, banning curvy bananas or outlawing inches and feet. And most importantly - those pesky immigrants.

Government should govern and not pass the hot potato to an uninformed electorate to decide on economically vital issues.

Call me elitist or undemocratic now

You are undemocratic.

Mr._Pricklepants

armour wrote: »

You are undemocratic.

Did you ever get to vote in a referendum on Trident? On whether to go into Iraq or not? On HS2? Is that undemocratic then?