Devere parking services ltd

Stroma

I disagree with that guys dad, if the lease doesn't show a permit scheme then its a winner, either at popla or a court. But it's not just at that appeal point you are challenge it, there are many ways of challenging each point they bring up. And unlike the local area court popla would be where this will be won.

The_Slithy_Tove

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Lease indicates residents must display permit and that is in the agreement.

No it doesn't.

The OP has only talked about "rules". We have no idea in what form these rules are. We haven't had sight of wording of the lease, despite asking. Chances are the "rules" are just something the PPC/management company put together, regardless that it cannot apply to a parking space specified in the lease.

IF the lease specifies a particular parking space (implied in the OP's first post) and says nothing about permit schemes (likely), then there is no way Devere can win if the case is presented properly, either at POPLA and certainly not at court.

Nah_2

Guys_Dad wrote: »

I think you are being harsh on OP who came on here for advice and information. If it was me, I wouldn't pay and would go through POPLA. If that failed, I would wait for the N'ton court letter and have it heard in another jurisdiction.

However, info given to OP is as follows.

Devere do court.
They seem to win a lot locally.
Lease indicates residents must display permit and that is in the agreement - not a winner at POPLA, I contend, unless the PPC fails to show rights to charge.

Nothing too positive posted so far to give OP confidence that they have a chance of winning.
Given that, and an inexperienced OP, then it is their choice to take the reduced amount or not. And it's their cash at the end of the day.

I suggest less knocking them and give them some real pointers to winning.

Out of everyone here, I think you understand the most.

What I came here to ask originally was if Devere were a real company before I paid them and where I stood considering the space belongs to our flat.

The lease states that the parking space belongs to the flat, but the pass must be displayed by anyone parked in that space.

To be honest, i can't be sure that my pass was displayed.

Im sorry to anyone who feels like I've wasted their time but at the same time there are a lot of angry people on here who need to calm themselves down a bit.

The_Slithy_Tove

Nah wrote: »

The lease states that the parking space belongs to the flat, but the pass must be displayed by anyone parked in that space.

Does the lease really say this, and not just some additional paperwork from someone?

Even if it does, what is the "offence" being alleged. It has to be one of
(a) a contractural charge - not very likely
(b) a penalty for breching the terms & conditions - possible as you failed to do something in the "rules", in which case only losses can be sought; the losses (to the landowner) are zero, YOU are the landowner
(c) damages for trespass - impossible as you cannot be trespassing on your own land.

Do you see where I am coming from? You DO NOT need to pay this. They CANNOT make you pay.

Oh, another thing. Ask yourself (or ask them) who gets this money? If it's Devere, what right does a 3rd party company have to take your money. Likewise if it's the management company. The only one who should get money from rule-breaking on your land is you.

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

Nah

Why are you so willing to give over your money?

If its your lease then I can be argued devere were trespassing

People on here are not angry just exasperated at your willingless to be fleeced of your money

Nah_2

The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »

Does the lease really say this, and not just some additional paperwork from someone?

Even if it does, what is the "offence" being alleged. It has to be one of
(b) a penalty for breching the terms & conditions - possible as you failed to do something in the "rules", in which case only losses can be sought; the losses (to the landowner) are zero, YOU are the landowner

Do you see where I am coming from? You DO NOT need to pay this. They CANNOT make you pay.

Oh, another thing. Ask yourself (or ask them) who gets this money? If it's Devere, what right does a 3rd party company have to take your money. Likewise if it's the management company. The only one who should get money from rule-breaking on your land is you.

This is the bit I could not get my head around, even if I didn't have my permit displayed it's my space so I haven't caused anyone any harm. I may have lead the thread astray by saying "my flat" when it is rented?

When we signed for the pass the agent said anyone parked in our space must display the pass, wether it is us who live there or a guest.

This is all very new to me guys so I won't always absorb all the information first time.

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

It doesn't matter what The agent say.
Don't confuse the lease with your rent agreement.

So put your cheque book away and look at the lease

The_Slithy_Tove

Nah wrote: »

This is the bit I could not get my head around, even if I didn't have my permit displayed it's my space so I haven't caused anyone any harm. I may have lead the thread astray by saying "my flat" when it is rented?

When we signed for the pass the agent said anyone parked in our space must display the pass, wether it is us who live there or a guest.

This is all very new to me guys so I won't always absorb all the information first time.

Aha! In that case, it's probably not the lease you were quoting, but your rental agreement. The lease trumps all else. The agent was probably just passing on the process the management company have unilaterally imposed (whereas they do not actually have the authority to impose a permit scheme over leaseholders' private, allocated parking spaces).

If you look on pepipoo.com's private parking ticket forum, and search for terms like "pcn in my private parking space", you'll find no end of similar threads. They all say pretty much the same as the advice you've been receiving here.

Guys_Dad

Coming back to my previous post and the ones following it, I reiterate that I would defend the case, refuse to pay and go through POPLA and the court.

You guys and I have been on here a while, have read the way to put together a POPLA defence, challenge the right of the PPC to charge anyone, minutely check the signage against the BPA COP, make sure the paperwork's i's were dotted and t's crossed etc etc.

However, you have to respect other people's right to take opinions, advice and then act as they see fit.

No good saying they are chucking money away when, if they don't feel they have the energy, time or ability to mount a defence that would win, particularly with the history of Devere and court results, it would cost them significantly more if they lost in open court.

You all need to remember that you should be on here to offer your experience, advice and opinions, not to offer harsh judgements when someone, after evaluating your posts, may decide to settle.

Maybe if someone had put together a skeleton appeal or referred OP to a thread where one was already drafted, then that might have given OP more confidence to mount an appeal, rather than slapping them down because they didn't take the path you wanted them to follow.

OP, it's still not too late. You have time to reconsider and to check out a few things. For instance, does it state anywhere in the "rules" where you must display the pass? Must it be on the windscreen? If not, could your pass have been on the back parcel shelf? .....and missed by the warden?

Have the PPC got photos to back up their claim? If not, then it's your word against theirs.

Have you asked them for their contract with the management company that gives them the right to charge you? What notices have they displayed and do they meet the British Parking Association minimum standards - see here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/BPA_CodeofPractice_2013_v1.pdf

Is the company demanding money the same as the ones on the parking notices?

All of these things should be checked out before parting with some money and you do have time to do that. Get someone to help you if you like - 2 heads better than one etc.

But if, at the end, you decide to pay the lower amount, then it's your choice and your decision, which all of us should respect, even if we disagree.

Guys_Dad

kirkbyinfurnesslad wrote: »

It doesn't matter what The agent say.
Don't confuse the lease with your rent agreement.

So put your cheque book away and look at the lease

Which is ALWAYS made available to tenants of the leaseholder, of course !!!!!!! I think not.