Accident & Emeregcny Demand unsustainable...

BobQ

Sampong wrote: »

No I don't.

Quite right you do not need to present evidence to justify your argument.

I guess that is why Cameron's fruitcake remark had so much credibility?

Sampong

BobQ wrote: »

Quite right you do not need to present evidence to justify your argument.

I guess that is why Cameron's fruitcake remark had so much credibility?

Utter rubbish as usual from you BobQ. You're so bored that you try to justify your existence by constant attacks on people's points of views. I've seen you exhibit this extensively against Graham. And it's not the first time you've made thinly veiled inferences that I am a fruitcake.

I guess you need to find some way of pumping your ego....

So exactly what is my argument that I need to provide evidence for? I posted a link to an article, and stated a FACT, that fact being that it wasn't just me who see's a correlation between immigration and increased pressure on A&E and the Health service. That's what I was pointing out - that someone holds the same opinion as me.

So along came olly, and told me that I need to do better than that.

Oh yeah? Why? Because he said so? LOL

You might want to note that the article is by a conservative MP - Chris Skidmore. So I guess that fruitcakes and immigrant "haters" must exist in the conservatives aswell then?

olly300

Sampong wrote: »

So along came olly, and told me that I need to do better than that.

Oh yeah? Why? Because he said so? LOL

Firstly I'm a she.

Secondly posting a link from a newspaper well known for it's long standing prejudicial views on immigrants since it's inception makes your views less valid rather than more.

Finally you obviously didn't read my post properly and you definitely didn't read resilie's.

Sampong

olly300 wrote: »

Firstly I'm a she.

I don't particularly care

olly300 wrote: »

Secondly posting a link from a newspaper well known for it's long standing prejudicial views on immigrants since it's inception makes your views less valid rather than more.

Hmm posting a link to a newspaper who in your opinion has prejudicial views makes my views less valid?

That is pure prejudice, ignorance, and bigotry. So you think your views are more valid than mine? I think you may be undermining your own argument here.

And whatever your opinion on the Daily Mail, the article was written by a Tory MP - the Daily Mail just published it. It could be in the Dandy for all I care - but the views come from a Tory MP. The fact that, in your opinion the Daily Mail holds long standing prejudiced views doesn't change the fact that these are the words, research and writings of Chris Skidmore (Tory) MP.

And please don't bore me with endless arguments how quoting from the Daily Mail renders an argument invalid. There are plenty of posters on here who will poke fun at various newspapers when arguing against a point - and then two days later quote from the SAME newspaper when it supports their own agenda.

wotsthat

Sampong wrote: »

I posted a link to an article, and stated a FACT, that fact being that it wasn't just me who see's a correlation between immigration and increased pressure on A&E and the Health service. That's what I was pointing out - that someone holds the same opinion as me.

The BBC had an article about it...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-22758157

I read the research that generated these figures and there was no mention of immigrants.

There's a decent graph here...



You're going to have a job pinning this one on immigrants - waiting times were basically level throughout the last 5 years of the previous government but didn't start rising until mid-2010.

We had a new government in 2010 - seems more likely that spending has been squeezed rather than all the immigrants suddenly started going to A&E despite not affecting waiting times previously.

I don't know if A&E record the immigration status or nationality of patients - why not ask the NHS for the data - wouldn't it be available under the freedom of information act?

Mr._Pricklepants

The rise is A&E admissions has only one cause; the opt-out of 90% of GP's out of after-hours care.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10016521/GPs-blamed-for-crisis-in-out-of-hours-health-care.html

Following the changes, 90 per cent of family doctors stopped providing emergency cover, leaving patients to rely on phone services, agency doctors or hospital visits. In 2004/05, 17.7 million people used England’s A&E departments. By last year, that had risen to 21.7 million.

Only a sampong would conclude immigrants are to be blamed.

olly300

wotsthat wrote: »

I don't know if A&E record the immigration status or nationality of patients - why not ask the NHS for the data - wouldn't it be available under the freedom of information act?

They should do.

When you go into A&E now:
1. They give you a nice leaflet on how you need to pay for your treatment if you aren't entitled.
2. Ask who your GP is

The order they do this in i.e. before, after, during treatment depends on how injured you are.

ILW

A hospital doctor I know has asked "Which bit of accident or Emergency do people not understand"?

GhIFA

So exactly what is my argument that I need to provide evidence for?

The one that you started this thread with, that immigration is the "root cause" of the problems currently being experienced in A&E departments. This article doesn't prove that at all. It spouts plenty of figures, but none of them actually provide any proof of "how soaring immigration is piling on the pressure" in A&E departments, which is odd as that is it's title.

The closest it comes is the president of the college of emergency medicine talking of "increases" in numbers, but then actually failing to quantify these, and some other professors talking of "estimates"

To be fair to Skidmore, he makes brief mention of changes in GP contracts, the ageing population, increasing obesity and budgetary constraints, but seems to have no appetite for investigating these with the same zeal as the immigrant angle, despite them arguably being the greater pressure points. Strange don't you think.

It makes no odds that Skidmore is a conservative MP, if you think the Daily Mail "just published it" you are incredibly naive - do you think they would have been as keen to "just publish it" if he had taken a pro-immigration view.

It's an article published by a paper well known for its prejudiced views, giving a mouthpiece to an MP who shares the same prejudices, dressed up as a piece of serious journalism. As "evidence" goes, it's hardly a smoking gun is it?

kabayiri

The GP opt-out fiasco was years ago.

I can see how this will have had an impact in the years since then , but why the sudden rise since the middle of 2012 ?

Do we have to find ways to put people off using A&E ? Perhaps a nominal charge would make people think twice.