Mmmm ! landlords to become imigration officers

RAS

propertyman wrote: »

They have other options inc driving licences, even just a provisional one, and claims records or employment records.

there are numerous agencies and social groups that will assist with this and concessions on the passport completion service at post offices.

Thats why I have suggested all along to use the NI system robustly as above, for free. Registered users access the system and your face pops up as chap from Portugal but the person presenting themself as smith 007 who is clearly chinese.

Exactly what scheme are you referring to (because it could be useful for other reasons)?

propertyman

Smith_007 wrote: »

Wow !
Talk about missing the point!

As to that and the other assertions I have not missed any point. When I have time later I will respond.

I am about fixing issues, not " OMG its so hard, so lets not, and won't everyone think about the stupid people".

Lord_Baltimore

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

It's only right that people should have to prove they are "entitled" to anything they ask for in this country (be it accommodation, a job, healthcare) if there is any doubt at all in the matter - so it's not surprising that they are being expected to prove they are entitled to accommodation before being given any.

Well said Money. About time we all took more responsibility for preserving societal benefits.

propertyman

The one thing Smith 007 doesn't mention is that doing something about this will STOP landlords and employers exploiting degrading and abusing the vulnerable.
.......................................................................

Tourists aside everyone lawfull here has an NI number.
1 Employers Self Employed Benefits Offices parole offices etc upload your picture to the NI form, name current address and dob- simples.

2 Agents and employers don’t get “access” to anything, they can upload or post the info and access a site which says "Name dob NI number" and up pops my picture. Unlike the handsome devil I am, the applicant is a 9 stone Somalian saying “ Me Mr Propertyman, Ok? Yes!” (the stereotype is for dramatic emphasis) He has no business hiring or letting to him.

Employers and landlords know that they can’t claim “ I don’t know what a dodgy passport looks like” and are prosecuted. Think of the jobs taken from the unemployed by overworkers and illegal workers, not to mention homes.


The cost- free. Same plastic card and non EU have an expiry date at the end NIXXX/9-15

Bots patrol the info for anomalies and duplications and a Judge says “Ok look closer”, or not.

Those less able are going to have to some form of support or help from friends families, or some point in society that are in contact with and we give real money to them to help out, and might have to hire people in job centres etc for the initial phase and have facilities in the local council homeless dept even a free 0800 number-just for starters.

Even the homeless when accessing hostels or shelters or day centres can be helped with tracing their roots to prove this and not be a bar to housing or services. The Sally Ann already do this par excellance.

And just think about those who can’t get a £72.50 passport, they now get a card and a db entry that solves the problem forever.

You make it sound insurmountable and while it might take some money and effort it can work. The problem is so many objectors have a vested interest in this, they don’t want problems solved. You may not be one of them but you use their arguments, straight out of the prgressvie playbook.

propertyman

RAS wrote: »

Exactly what scheme are you referring to (because it could be useful for other reasons)?

Lets take two employment and opening a bank account. We can carry on, anyone lawfully here has an NI number, so when its verified as above its of wide use such as claiming assistance for housing and benefits.

Yes we do have to think of potential limits and abuses, as above, 2 Mr Propertyman pop up, one a handsome rake and the other a burly Aussie & 20 years younger, only get investigated, eg HMRC etc, if a Judge says so.

whalster

Since I started this thread there has been a lot of backtracking from the DWP on this subject and although they have now published the draft bill with these proposals contained in it a lot of people me included think that this is just a face saving exercise .
Firstly as a citizen of this country like everyone else I do not want to see our resources exploited by people who have no right to be here ,as a landlord if I ever came across someone trying to rent from me who was I would report them .
The all said the only way to reduce this problem and the word is reduce as it will never be stopped no matter how much money is thrown at the problem is to increase border agency staff on the points of entry .
Last week I went to a talk/question and answer session which had been long planned ,the speakers were two order agency staff who were to talk on the proposed new legislation .
To cut a long story short from the outset they made it very clear that everything was still in flux and the did not believe the changes will take place .
There are many instances where the proposals will not mesh with the way tenancy law works as a lot of the landlords at this meeting pointed out .

Two small examples ,
I have a former tenant who moved to Israel a few years ago to work ,he married an Israeli national but had to do this outside the country he being a non Jew ,they are now living back over here however she can not get permanent resident status and has to fly back home this week to renew her visa in the British embassy in Israel ,crazy I know.
Now would I rent to this couple? If I did would I rent to them with only a month left on her visa? Or would I let to him alone on the understanding she would not be living with him ,Yeh Right! .
As a side issue she has no NI number as is not able to access welfare or work in this country ,there are thousands of people in this position who have residents visas it seems.

Also the second reason and main one in my mind there is nothing to stop a legitimate tenant letting non status immigrants living in their property .
I let a house to an Egyptian guy two months ago ,passport locked fine to us and we always copy them however there is nothing to stop him signing the tenancy Monday and moving his mates in who are illegal on the Tuesday .
What stops this is making sure on the point of entry that we do not end up in that situation

As I said above the ONLY way to do this is a not having leaking borders I know it and more importantly the border agency staff know it .

propertyman

The problem is then with over stayers who legally entered. As landlord you know that the visa is about to expire and don't rent to them as
a most visas in most countries do require you to leave and renew
b you don’t leave it until the last minute

BA computer shows that a person has not left, Judge says ok to enquire and the NI Number shows that they are at x address employed by y etc. Therefore the person approaching you is a risk. They are contractually obligated to you for rent etc but they might have to leave in a month.

propertyman

The problem is then with over stayers who legally entered. As landlord you know that the visa is about to expire and don't rent to them as
a most visas in most countries do require you to leave and renew
b you don’t leave it until the last minute

BA computer shows that a person has not left, Judge says ok to enquire and the NI Number shows that they are at x address employed by y etc. Therefore the person approaching you is a risk. They are contractually obligated to you for rent etc but they might have to leave in a month.

I had to spend a few days in Canada to get a visa and got so fed up with it I pulled out my parent's birth certficate and claimed citizenship.It can be done.

Zorz_2

propertyman wrote: »

Not that the old US INS was that great either I got so bored of that process that I claimed citizenship ( by birthplace ) and got the blue passport

propertyman wrote: »

I had to spend a few days in Canada to get a visa and got so fed up with it I pulled out my parent's birth certficate and claimed citizenship.It can be done.

So, in the span of 2 pages of the same thread, you aquired citizenship of both Canada and the USA, on top of -assuming- the UK one. And all that, just because you were bored of the entry procedures for non citizens.

I won't even mention how it's possible to be fed up of entering the USA and Canada as a Briton and yet willingly deal with the IRS. :rotfl:
As a UK citizen though, you don't need a canadian visa, while for the USA, UK is part of the visa waiver program since 1988...

Apart from naive, you do come across IMO as a bit of a mythomaniac too. Of course, it might be perfectly possible that my assumption (of you being a UK citizen) is just wrong, so that you would actually need a visa trying to enter those countries with your original passport.

In that case, I'm just glad that you don't vote in this country...

propertyman

Err no. Requiring renewal of a visa requires you to leave the country, Canada is convenient. US citizenship was obtained to avoid those trips.

I see your trouble is that your understanding is limited, and that you would rather mock than ask.

Entry to either country as a (qualifying) tourist does not require a visa, but workers do. I am also a UK citizen by birth.

That experience grants me an informed view. In both cases I don't get far (emergency treatment aside) with the health services without " cash" insurance or an SSN* or SIN*.

We can do the same.

( *nor banking or housing)