Mmmm ! landlords to become imigration officers

Peter_Parsons

JencParker wrote: »

Mmmm..... never heard of a humble landlord!

As has been said it is no different from what employers have to do. I see no problem with it.

Well, we do exist.

This is an unworkable proposal.

Firstly, there is no register of landlords in existence in the UK, so the government doesn't know who is a landlord.

Secondly, how I am supposed to check the validity of a passport and visa supplied to me by a tenant? What information sources are available to me? Am I to be given full and unfettered access to the Border Agency's entire immigration database? Do I get a login to the Home Office's computers?

It is honest, above-board landlords who will suffer if this is implemented.

I_have_spoken

Just a stealth tax on BTL LLs. A fine if you don't check, a fine for racism if you do check.

kmmr

Does this mean that LL's can evict when the tenants visa expires, or they find out it's not legit? Even if they had a 1 year visa at the start of the tenancy, if they stay on then the LL will be in breach of the new regulation but not able to do anything about it.

Those big aussie houseshares will be a nightmare, as will issues with partners, lodgers and subtenants.

I think this will be horribly discriminatory, not only to immigrants, but to british people who may not have the right accent or skin colour.

RAS

Having had to do something similiar and had to use previous Home Office guidance the basics are:

1. To avoid allegations of racial discrimination, ask for the same documentatation from all tenants regardless of apparent origin. If you do not already do this so that you are confident of their identity before doing the financial checks, maybe a good time to start.

2. Keep photocopies/scans of all documents to prove that you did the check.

3. Generally employers are not expected to recognise sophisticated forgeries (immigration officers can't do that without recourse to the BA computer) but they are expected to spot blatant forgeries. Seen some crackers in my time.

I cannot however see how this is going to be fully workable however. Is a LL allowed to let to someone with a work permit or student visa that expires in 4 months? If not, where does this person live until their visa renewal comes through in 8 months time? What does the LL do about the person who rents out the property using their documentation and then allows someone else to move in. Non-EU nationals reported that it was easy for one legitimate person to sign up for many agencies and then to send people with no right to work to fulfil multiple short-term contracts for example

theartfullodger

I already take copies of driving license and/or passport/visa etc etc (eg + NI number off payslips, "emergency" contacts etc ,): Why?? (ie why before Dave decided to go high-profile-anti-immigrant and hit back at UKIP-nigel-with-the-german-wife,,,) - well, so if in the very unlikely event that tenant departs without having paid all the rent I have more info to help a tracing-company find them.. (If a prospective tenant declined to provide same the conversation/transaction would cease...).


However, as a landlord can I tell a fake passport/visa from a real one?? Doubt it.

'tis yet more badly thought through DM inspired panic-reaction from a Tory party on the run: I look forward to their U-turn.....


Cheers!

00ec25

Peter_Parsons wrote: »

Well, we do exist.

This is an unworkable proposal.

Firstly, there is no register of landlords in existence in the UK, so the government doesn't know who is a landlord.

agreed, an obvious fallacy in the proposal

Peter_Parsons wrote: »

Secondly, how I am supposed to check the validity of a passport and visa supplied to me by a tenant? What information sources are available to me? Am I to be given full and unfettered access to the Border Agency's entire immigration database? Do I get a login to the Home Office's computers?

It is honest, above-board landlords who will suffer if this is implemented.

although the UKBA has of course officially ceased to exist one assumes that when this passes into law they will produce a version of the guidance already available to anyone (but currently aimed at employers) on the publically accessible website on what documents look like -
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/residency/brp-information-leaflet.pdf

as others have said a competent LL would already be keeping copies of this anyway as part of the vetting process however I agree that once again it is legislation designed to punish only the law abiding checker (ie LL in this case)

RAS

theartfullodger wrote: »

However, as a landlord can I tell a fake passport/visa from a real one?? Doubt it.

The existing guidance for employers is that they should be able to identify forgeries that are evident to a lay person.

There are people who have the same machines as our own passport office and can churn out identical documents which are good enough to fool immigration authorities world-wide. And sorting out "fake" EU spouses is very difficult.

On the other hand if the person in front of you looks nothing like the person whose ID you have been given, or it looks like the back of the photopage has been tampered with, you might be concerned.

I can see a resurfacing of the older mailmerge documents that the Home Office used to issue that were eminently forgeable.

RAS

00ec25 wrote: »

one assumes that when this passes into law they will produce a version of the guidance already available to anyone (but currently aimed at employers) on the publically accessible website on what documents look like -
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/residency/brp-information-leaflet.pdf

There are a lot of people around who were granted ILR/ELR etc before biometric cards came in and still produce paper documents which are much easier to forge.

And of course people who were employed when the checking laws came in cannot be checked retrospectively, unless they apply for a new job with the same employer. So if they sit tight they can just keep working.

00ec25

RAS wrote: »

There are a lot of people around who were granted ILR/ELR etc before biometric cards came in and still produce paper documents which are much easier to forge.

And of course people who were employed when the checking laws came in cannot be checked retrospectively, unless they apply for a new job with the same employer. So if they sit tight they can just keep working.

the point I was illustrating is that there is guidance out there on what is a valid ID.
I was not seeking to list every link on UKBA website on how to spot fake ID, there are more than the one I gave as an example.

the rules for checking employees are not relevant to this discussion about LL so I'll say no more about retrospectives

Peter_Parsons

00ec25 wrote: »

agreed, an obvious fallacy in the proposal

as others have said a competent LL would already be keeping copies of this anyway as part of the vetting process however I agree that once again it is legislation designed to punish only the law abiding checker (ie LL in this case)

Personally, as a LL, I don't have any of this. I use a letting agent and I pay them for a full management service. They do the vetting on my behalf.

Furthermore, who would you vet? Say my property was rented to a couple, both of whom were legitimately in the UK, were vetted, and who signed the contract. 3 months later their 19 year old offspring arrives on a student visa, moves in to the property, and starts working illegally. How am I supposed to know? How can I be held responsible in law for that?