Mmmm ! landlords to become imigration officers

propertyman

Peter_Parsons wrote: »

So I've now got to be able to fingerprint my tenants.Wow!

Not everyone appears on the public electoral roll, and not all properties are mortgaged. How would your suggestions catch up with the LL who is renting out space in a converted garden shed, cash in hand, to someone working illegally? Is it those LLs who should be targetted or is it just easier to go after the likes of me?

Yep quick photo and thumb print and send it in. Webcam and a reader under £50. But everyone who pays or claims must have an NI and if they are earning or signing on, or training, its cross checked that way.

As to catching landlords the same problem as the UKBA exists, local authorities suck in cash and spend them on pointless things and not on their source of income. If Mr Propertyman address suddenly has lots or people who sound like Slumdog Millionaire or meerkat advert characters, then one of the dbs will flag a query. The NI link would flag up a phone contract or bank account or paye or benefit link but no corresponding licencing and is then investigated.

Rather than holding wellness parades or interfaith porridge jamborees the cash gets spent on this.

it licence landlords allowing them to be held to account for standards and tenants rights, pays for courts for landlords rights, and proper funding of the UKBA, and stop it at the door.

propertyman

Peter_Parsons wrote: »

I only know what I have seen reported on the BBC.

I stood on a new build scheme overlooking "a London Borough"with a local planning officer and you can see the beds in sheds and likely structures.

Answer-

Don't have the court space/time or money
Don't have the staff or money to investigate
We have to house them while we investigate/have to house some of them
Might not be able to send them anywhere
Cant find out where they are from/Might not be taken back in at "home"
Where do we put them

Just a prime example of our p*ss poor position in the EU and even worse thinking.

jamie11

Peter_Parsons wrote: »

Personally, as a LL, I don't have any of this. I use a letting agent and I pay them for a full management service. They do the vetting on my behalf.

Furthermore, who would you vet? Say my property was rented to a couple, both of whom were legitimately in the UK, were vetted, and who signed the contract. 3 months later their 19 year old offspring arrives on a student visa, moves in to the property, and starts working illegally. How am I supposed to know? How can I be held responsible in law for that?

In law the contract is always between the landlord and the tenant, you can't rely on your agent being held responsible, he's just your employee.

Yorkie1

Under the recent Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, I am not sure that you have power to take / retain fingerprints unless you have written consent - which can be revoked by the individual at any time. If consent is revoked, you must destroy the fingerprints immediately.

SnooksNJ

whalster wrote: »

Listening to the news this morning It seems we are going to become immigration officers if proposals that are to be put forward for legislation come to pass.
As a private landlord I always check passport and country of origin and take a copy ,most of the time it is easy as most people are from within the EU, even non EU checking visas and work permits is pretty straight forward .
What bothers me once again is liability is it my fault if documents are false ? or how about if I have tenants who don't check out? is it then going to become my duty to report these people ? maybe I will have to tether them to the fall pipes on the property while holding a rolling pin in a semi threatening fashion !
It is not my job to do this it is not my job to become an inland border agency.
If this does come into law and there is sanction if not done correctly then I pity those poor folk who use an agent , as with deposit protection , gas safety and much more the landlord has responsibility at the end of the day and agents will throw their hands in the air and say sorry boss its your problem

My fellow American Ex Pats are going to try to fight this because when you apply for a new visa it takes months and during that time you don't have your passport/visa.

propertyman

SnooksNJ wrote: »

My fellow American Ex Pats are going to try to fight this because when you apply for a new visa it takes months and during that time you don't have your passport/visa.

Yep back to my original post. The visa fee has nowt to do with the funding they get to do this work. One reason it is hard is the administration and information is spread over several departments.

Anyone dealing with a government department, legitimately ,needs to have their NI number and that triggers immediate access to the needed information.

Not that the old US INS was that great either I got so bored of that process that I claimed citizenship ( by birthplace ) and got the blue passport

Peter_Parsons

Well, the draft bill on this is now out.

It doesn't answer my concerns (e.g. it does contain reference to being required to obtain documents about individuals who are not signatories to the tenancy), and it appears that most of the useful and relevant detail is not in the bill, but will be in supplementary legislation, which won't come out until after the bill is passed (assuming it is).

Smith_007

Many British people don't have a passport.

Especially the vulnerable people.....
The homeless, the poor, low IQ, long term sick etc

These people struggle to find employment without a passport (except for casual, cash-in-hand work :whistle: ) as few employers will take the risk.

Now they will struggle to find a home without a passport, as few landlords will take the risk. (Except for casual, cash-in-hand landlords :whistle: )

A passport costing them £72.50
A passport some people might be to thick to apply for.
A passport you need a fixed address and two referees in good standing to apply for.

Thank-you Tories :mad:

propertyman

They have other options inc driving licences, even just a provisional one, and claims records or employment records.

there are numerous agencies and social groups that will assist with this and concessions on the passport completion service at post offices.

Thats why I have suggested all along to use the NI system robustly as above, for free. Registered users access the system and your face pops up as chap from Portugal but the person presenting themself as smith 007 who is clearly chinese.

Smith_007

propertyman wrote: »

They have other options inc driving licences, even just a provisional one, and claims records or employment records.

Wow !
Talk about missing the point!

Driving licence, NI card, employment records do not prove nationality (ask me how I know). Like a passport, a homeless or vulnerable person may not have any of these things.

propertyman wrote: »

there are numerous agencies and social groups that will assist with this

Are you seriously telling me that you think a letting agency (or busy landlord) will assist in helping a homeless or vulnerable person get a passport? :rotfl:

Perhaps you can name the "numerous agencies and social groups" who will provide a vulnerable person with £72.50 and two referees in good standing to help them get a passport?

You are very lucky my friend.
You have a home.
You have a family.
You have friends.
You have a reasonable IQ
You can read and write.

Many people don't have this.
They need our help. Not denied employment or a home 'cos they are too poor or thick to apply for a passport....... Yes, a passport. Because an employer or landlord wants to see a passport, not an NI card or anything else. And arguing with them won't help.

propertyman wrote: »

Thats why I have suggested all along to use the NI system robustly as above, for free. Registered users access the system and your face pops up as chap from Portugal but the person presenting themself as smith 007 who is clearly chinese.

Do you seriously want to give private landlords and unscrupulous letting agencies access to the NI system?
:rotfl: