Civil Enforcement Ltd

Markham

Thanks to advice given here when I received my fine notice because as my mobile phone records show I tried to pay the parking ticket twice at the time but their system didn't work (it was very hard to follow all the instructions) but a recorded message told me to refer to the board for alternative methods of payment. There weren't any, there used to be a coin operated system but this has now gone. I wrote to CE Ltd saying I accepted no liability as their systems were not working and asking for popla verification code within 35 days and have no further info so consider my letter as my final position. Now had a letter back saying I am not entitled to POPLA until I have exhausted all internal appeals and suggesting I request a Manager Review and suggesting I ask for their application form. They offer to keep to initial fine of £75. What should I do next I am not feeling as brave now my moment of indignation has passed. I did genuinely try to pay on the day and do know that other people in the car park where having the same problem which is why I tried twice and as I say my phone records show I tried.

HO87

What was the original parking charge (i.e. what you should have paid but were prevented from paying as a result of a poor/non-performing system)?

nigelbb

As you have already started on the appeals route I suggest that you get over to PePiPoo & get a proper defence for POPLA. http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=SF&s=&f=60

You have little to worry about as these clowns insist that you go through several stages of appeal whereas the the British Parking Association Code of Practice states:-

22.8 You must acknowledge or reply to the challenge within
14 days of receiving it. If at first you only acknowledge
the challenge, you must accept or reject the challenge in
writing within 35 days of receiving it. We may require you
to show that you are keeping to these targets.

That 35 day clock is already ticking. If CE prevaricate they will wind up in breach of the CoP & not entitled to levy a charge.

HO87

nigelbb wrote: »

As you have already started on the appeals route I suggest that you get over to PePiPoo & get a proper defence for POPLA. http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=SF&s=&f=60

You have little to worry about as these clowns insist that you go through several stages of appeal whereas the the British Parking Association Code of Practice states:-

That 35 day clock is already ticking. If CE prevaricate they will wind up in breach of the CoP & not entitled to levy a charge.

This may be so but, in my opinion, the OP should make one further appeal (it needs to go to CE rather than POPLA at this stage) on the basis that the only amount owed is the original parking fee that they were prevented from paying as the result of CE's failed system. They should enclose a cheque for that amount together with their appeal stating that all additional costs CE may have incurred were as a direct result of their defective process.

Markham

The original fee would have been around 80p which I would have been very happy to pay there was never any intention of not paying. The first time I tried I assumed it hadn't worked because I put in a wrong number so I started all over again and then two other independent people were also trying and one other lady told me it wasn't working. So when I got the same message referring me to the board for alternative methods (which there weren't any) I assumed it wasn't me doing anything wrong but there systems not working. The car park used to be local authority and free for the first two hours, then it changed and a company used to operate it on a pay and display basis (and people were frequently clamped) then it was seemingly free probably whilst the new system was being installed. My indignation stems from the failing of being set up to fail! I have used these telephone payment systems at two other car parks previously and not had a problem before. I would be prepared to pay just feel £75 is unjustifiable. I did in my first letter state as advice on this site that I wished to go to POPLA and my letter was sent on 15 April. Don't know whether to sit it out but do I have to go through their internal appeals procedure or should I try a "Manager Review" as they suggest if I thought there would be a fair compromise I would probably do this as I don't want it hanging over me.

nigelbb

If your original letter of challenge/appeal was sent on 15th April then whether you respond again or not they must accept/reject within 35 days & provide the verification code so that you may take your case to POPLA. By my reckoning that's around 22nd May allowing for the post. You can go along with their delaying tactics by opting for the "Manager Review" but the 35 day clock is ticking so whether they have completed their own internal processes or not then by the 22nd May they need to either provide a POPLA code or cancel the charge.

Stroma

HO87 wrote: »

This may be so but, in my opinion, the OP should make one further appeal (it needs to go to CE rather than POPLA at this stage) on the basis that the only amount owed is the original parking fee that they were prevented from paying as the result of CE's failed system. They should enclose a cheque for that amount together with their appeal stating that all additional costs CE may have incurred were as a direct result of their defective process.

The only problem with that its not just one more appeal its another 2 if they don't agree the first time. They are in breach of the BPA Code of Practice if they refuse the popla code, which they have, the clock is ticking, they have 35 days from the initial appeal to accept or reject, the CoP is quite clear on that.

I would make a complaint to popla, dvla and bpa on this

22.8
You must acknowledge or reply to the challenge within 14 days of receiving it. If at first you only acknowledge the challenge, you must accept or reject the challenge in writing within 35 days of receiving it. We may require you to show that you are keeping to these targets.

I would write back to them and simply say, give me the code I have nothing further to add, you have until (date) or the appeal is automatically accepted.

nigelbb

The 35 day rule is not just in the BPA CoP it's what POPLA themselves say

http://www.popla.org.uk/receivedaPCN.htm

On receipt of your representations, the operator must:

Consider any representations received within the time allowed for representations;
Acknowledge or reply to the representations within 14 days of receiving it;
Decide whether to accept or reject the representations;
Within 35 days of receiving the representations, accept or reject it and inform the maker.
If they have accepted the representations or failed to respond within 35 days, cancel the notice to keeper (where the parking charge notice was served at the scene) or the parking charge notice (where this was served by post) and refund any sums paid.

HO87

Stroma wrote: »

The only problem with that its not just one more appeal its another 2 if they don't agree the first time. They are in breach of the BPA Code of Practice if they refuse the popla code, which they have, the clock is ticking, they have 35 days from the initial appeal to accept or reject, the CoP is quite clear on that.

I would make a complaint to popla, dvla and bpa on this

I would write back to them and simply say, give me the code I have nothing further to add, you have until (date) or the appeal is automatically accepted.

There is another issue which I believe you are both missing. As we know CE have issued proceedings on a number of occasions recently. With this in mind, rather than simply the POFA AOS CoP issues, the OP's case will be enhanced, IMO, if they make an offer to settle based on the fee they were unable to pay declining to add any administrative costs to this on the basis that the whole situation arose out of CE's inefficient/deficient system.

CE will probably refuse the offer and will then leave themselves in a situation where the effectiveness of their arguments will be reduced and they will be unable to demonstrate that they have sought to minimise their losses - a duty that all claimants have.

Stroma

Yes an offer could be made to settle, the cost of the original fee. As long as its along the lines of if they reject that they must send the rejection and popla code by day 35 of the original appeal. Have you seen their pathetic appeals process ?

http://www.ce-service.co.uk/faq.html

HO87

Stroma wrote: »

Yes an offer could be made to settle, the cost of the original fee. As long as its along the lines of if they reject that they must send the rejection and popla code by day 35 of the original appeal. Have you seen their pathetic appeals process ?

http://www.ce-service.co.uk/faq.html

That process is clearly designed to frustrate POPLA appeals.