Santander trying to steal £14,200 from me

innovate

nelly12 wrote: »

ye and you have villa in Monaco........ Defend yourself fair enough but more bull. But back to where you actually have some knowledge!

No point being dismissive about grumbler's claims on matched betting/advantage playing just because you don't know how it works. You are doing yourself no favours with such tactics. Grumbler is absolutely right, people have made tens of thousands from it with no risk.

grumbler

innovate wrote: »

How do you know it should take less time when you have no information about a) the number of cases, b) the procedures that must be followed and c) the complexity of each case?

The same applies to any criminal investigations that can go on indefinitely, yet have strict limits for detaining suspects.

Plus, how would you enforce someone outside the UK's jurisdiction to comply with UK-enforced time limits? ML cases, very specifically, often involve all sorts of countries outside UK jurisdiction. Some won't respond to requests from a UK bank before hell freezes over.

You forget that I was talking about the time taken by the bank to send copies internally and to look at them.

dalesrider wrote: »

That was for the OP's paperwork getting to the correct department. Taking it that Santander work in the same way as we do.

Well, if they work this way, this doesn't mean that this is a correct way of working.
As I said, this ridiculous way of working in the 21st century is a direct result of lack of time limits. Banks are not forced to do this work efficiently while any self-regulation based on moral principles is obviously failing.

BJV

Ok I have just spent nearly thirty minutes of my life trying to find out what is happening.

If i have got it right Santander have frozen your account. Which was a personal account but you where using for business?

You have gone from no income to a trader in play money , sorry not fair an alternative to money.

I am not a fan of banks - Sorry ! But I have my business , personal and even some of kids accounts with Santander and yes they are not perfect. Yes they do make mistakes, but i have to be honest I would never want them to stop trying to combat fraud.

Fraud, cost us all billions each and every year. From increases in car insurance to higher admin charges on loans, mortgages etc. Lost tax, lost NI etc the list goes on.

That said giving you the benefit of the doubt if there is nothing untoward happening Santander should be able to sort this out and you will get your money back.

P.s Anyone want to swap me £200 for 10 magic milk bottle tops.( these ones where touched by pink unicorns.) You can use them at our allotment ( sorry only our plot ) and selective other shops like my daughters play house and their tree house. Tescos, Asda, well almost everywhere will not accept them yet but don't worry they will soon promise! ??? SORRY JOKE!

JuicyJesus

BJV wrote: »

P.s Anyone want to swap me £200 for 10 magic milk bottle tops.( these ones where touched by pink unicorns.) You can use them at our allotment ( sorry only our plot ) and selective other shops like my daughters play house and their tree house. Tescos, Asda, well almost everywhere will not accept them yet but don't worry they will soon promise! ??? SORRY JOKE!

Why would he want those when he could have the exciting new JuicyJesus dollars which are only going up in value (now £650 to JJ$1)? My mate's garage now take them - all you need to do is give him JuicyJesus dollars and he'll fix your car! Behind the scenes he gives them to me and I give him the GBP equivalent less a small commission. It's perfect! It also helps cut out the profiteering banks and middlemen, except for me, but I'm not a middleman I'm just an independent businessman trying to make his way.

Why, it's even possible to live your entire life only using JuicyJesus dollars! All you need to do is convert them back to an actual currency when you need bread or milk, or broker all your services through some people on IRC. It's perfect and far safer! After all, when you do business in an area with no fraud regulation, nobody can shut you down and freeze your assets as part of an investigation into blatant fraud!

Diastolic

JuicyJesus wrote: »

Why would he want those when he could have the exciting new JuicyJesus dollars which are only going up in value (now £650 to JJ$1)? My mate's garage now take them - all you need to do is give him JuicyJesus dollars and he'll fix your car! Behind the scenes he gives them to me and I give him the GBP equivalent less a small commission. It's perfect! It also helps cut out the profiteering banks and middlemen, except for me, but I'm not a middleman I'm just an independent businessman trying to make his way.

Why, it's even possible to live your entire life only using JuicyJesus dollars! All you need to do is convert them back to an actual currency when you need bread or milk, or broker all your services through some people on IRC. It's perfect and far safer! After all, when you do business in an area with no fraud regulation, nobody can shut you down and freeze your assets as part of an investigation into blatant fraud!

Congratulations, you made me create an account JUST to post onto this thread.

Firstly, Bitcoin is slowly becoming known as a currency, regardless of it being not all that well known. People are making quite substantial amounts through it. It's a peer to peer currency and only so much is in circulation at any given time, try reading up about it at some point.

Secondly, OP you have done a great job. I've been looking into buying and selling bitcoins myself but I'm drawn more towards the aspects of mining. What I'd personally recommend that you do is get some jalapenos pre-ordered from Butterfly Labs and mine your own bitcoins. You can be getting at least 5GH/s per one unit. With that chance you've got a good chance of solving a whole block yourself, if you're lucky. Obviously the more units you have, the higher the chance! Only issue you have to take into consideration is obviously your electricity bills.

Anyone who is doubting bitcoins hasn't looked back at it's track record. Currently one bitcoin is worth £79.50 (Aprox. at time of writing) and a few weeks back they were touching £95. The margins of it are crazy and can change within hours. It's all about knowing when to buy and sell, but that much is obvious.

As far as getting his accounts froze, that was utterly ridiculous on the half of Santander. I can understand that it can be looked into as money laundering but even so, he has the right to understand why there has been a block placed onto his account. Several branch manager lying to him is a really bad point for Santander, I'm glad that I don't bank with them.

Also, @JuicyJesus - If you're creating your own currency, how are people going to buy into them? Do you have a website dedicated to every single transaction that is coming in and out? Along with websites set up to track it's current price as well as independant wallets/banks to store it into?

Unlike your 'JuicyJesus dollars' bitcoin has a full record of all transactions that are sent in and out, called a blockchain. Bitcoins are held in a wallet or an escrow, like the one that the OP has used. Each is encrypted and has mutliple security factors to stop being accessing them, besides yourself.

Educate yourself before posting a reply.

Azelphur

innovate wrote: »

No point being dismissive about grumbler's claims on matched betting/advantage playing just because you don't know how it works. You are doing yourself no favours with such tactics. Grumbler is absolutely right, people have made tens of thousands from it with no risk.

This, but with Bitcoins.

Azelphur

Diastolic wrote: »

Congratulations, you made me create an account JUST to post onto this thread.

Firstly, Bitcoin is slowly becoming known as a currency, regardless of it being not all that well known. People are making quite substantial amounts through it. It's a peer to peer currency and only so much is in circulation at any given time, try reading up about it at some point.

Secondly, OP you have done a great job. I've been looking into buying and selling bitcoins myself but I'm drawn more towards the aspects of mining. What I'd personally recommend that you do is get some jalapenos pre-ordered from Butterfly Labs and mine your own bitcoins. You can be getting at least 5GH/s per one unit. With that chance you've got a good chance of solving a whole block yourself, if you're lucky. Obviously the more units you have, the higher the chance! Only issue you have to take into consideration is obviously your electricity bills.

Anyone who is doubting bitcoins hasn't looked back at it's track record. Currently one bitcoin is worth £79.50 (Aprox. at time of writing) and a few weeks back they were touching £95. The margins of it are crazy and can change within hours. It's all about knowing when to buy and sell, but that much is obvious.

As far as getting his accounts froze, that was utterly ridiculous on the half of Santander. I can understand that it can be looked into as money laundering but even so, he has the right to understand why there has been a block placed onto his account. Several branch manager lying to him is a really bad point for Santander, I'm glad that I don't bank with them.

Also, @JuicyJesus - If you're creating your own currency, how are people going to buy into them? Do you have a website dedicated to every single transaction that is coming in and out? Along with websites set up to track it's current price as well as independant wallets/banks to store it into?

Unlike your 'JuicyJesus dollars' bitcoin has a full record of all transactions that are sent in and out, called a blockchain. Bitcoins are held in a wallet or an escrow, like the one that the OP has used. Each is encrypted and has mutliple security factors to stop being accessing them, besides yourself.

Educate yourself before posting a reply.

Woo, nice things!

I do actually have some hardware on preorder from BFL, I have 3 SC Singles that I ordered back in June (So with luck, I should be front of the queue!) I also did mine previously on graphics cards (Blatant showoff picture)

I agree with pretty much everything in this post, people need to educate themselves before posting, and I am indeed upset with the way Santander have handled the situation with lies, threats, etc.

Diastolic

Azelphur wrote: »

Woo, nice things!

I do actually have some hardware on preorder from BFL, I have 3 SC Singles that I ordered back in June (So with luck, I should be front of the queue!) I also did mine previously on graphics cards *url edit out*

I agree with pretty much everything in this post, people need to educate themselves before posting, and I am indeed upset with the way Santander have handled the situation with lies, threats, etc.

Ah nice! I'm jealous of the BFL orders, I'm yet to order mine... I've got 3 3GB Radeon HD7970 beauties coming my way soon! Should at least get 1.8GH/s so it's all good.

Out of sheer interest, how much are you making per buy/sell?

JuicyJesus

Diastolic wrote: »

Congratulations, you made me create an account JUST to post onto this thread.

Congratulations, you assume I am completely ignorant about the subject I'm mocking.

Firstly, Bitcoin is slowly becoming known as a currency, regardless of it being not all that well known. People are making quite substantial amounts through it. It's a peer to peer currency and only so much is in circulation at any given time, try reading up about it at some point.

Only so much is in circulation because for everyone except people who desperately want to buy into it for ideological reasons or just because they think it's a nice idea it is a solution in search of a problem. And not even a particularly good solution. It has no consumer protection for purchase of goods (whereas someone buying something online with a credit or debit card or, hell, even PayPal has simple measures they can take if they've been scammed or ripped off), it is only accepted in a tiny, tiny minority of shops and is grossly less accessible and more inconvenient than the prevailing national currencies it claims to be able to represent. Not to mention being vastly more unstable, being subject to a bubble driven by intense speculation. And bubbles inevitably pop, like the tech bubble did in the early 2000s and the housing bubble has recently.

And that situation WILL NOT change, no matter how much wishful thinking you or any other of Bitcoin's somewhat deluded supporters use, until the man on the street can DIRECTLY use Bitcoin to purchase goods and services essential for life from virtually any supplier I can choose AND there are enough numerate and significant benefits to said man-on-the-street in using it over extant currencies like pounds and dollars which justify the conversion to an entirely new currency. Right now there are none. Even I, someone technologically clued-up and financially clued-up, have no reason whatsoever to chuck my pounds in the bin and switch to Bitcoin.

Secondly, OP you have done a great job.

Yes, wandering into an unregulated market and getting your bank accounts frozen because you do absolutely no due diligence checks on your clients and as a result receive stolen money in exchange for clean money is what I would describe as a "great job".

I've been looking into buying and selling bitcoins myself but I'm drawn more towards the aspects of mining. What I'd personally recommend that you do is get some jalapenos pre-ordered from Butterfly Labs and mine your own bitcoins. You can be getting at least 5GH/s per one unit. With that chance you've got a good chance of solving a whole block yourself, if you're lucky. Obviously the more units you have, the higher the chance! Only issue you have to take into consideration is obviously your electricity bills.

What a wonderful idea, except for the bit where the cost of the electricity and the hardware behind the mining is more than the Bitcoins themselves are worth. And that mining is essentially a lottery based on random chance - no matter how amazing your rig, each extra gigaflop of processing power is just you basically buying another lottery ticket, and is no guarantee that the guy who just bought one won't get lucky.

Anyone who is doubting bitcoins hasn't looked back at it's track record. Currently one bitcoin is worth £79.50 (Aprox. at time of writing) and a few weeks back they were touching £95. The margins of it are crazy and can change within hours. It's all about knowing when to buy and sell, but that much is obvious.

It's a good thing that values of things can only ever go up and never down, especially when in and of themselves (and even right now, according to virtually everyone else) they have absolutely no intrinsic value and therefore their value is best described as "whatever other people who are also playing a game where they're hoping the value will never go down otherwise they lose big will pay for them". That's why people who have invested in shares and houses and precious metals have all become indescribably wealthy and are suffering no adverse consequences which might happen should the value of any of those things decrease, because it doesn't.

As far as getting his accounts froze, that was utterly ridiculous on the half of Santander. I can understand that it can be looked into as money laundering but even so, he has the right to understand why there has been a block placed onto his account. Several branch manager lying to him is a really bad point for Santander, I'm glad that I don't bank with them.

No, it wasn't, and no, he doesn't. If his account is frozen for suspected money laundering he cannot be given any information by anyone, hence why the branch manager HAS to lie, because "tipping off" someone that they are subject to an investigation carries a potential prison sentence. Any other bank would act the same way.

Add to that that Bitcoin is used to an incredible degree for criminal activity due to its anonymous, distributed nature, that using a personal account for business use is against the bank's conditions in the first place and that the OP HAS ADMITTED RECEIVING FRAUDULENTLY OBTAINED MONIES and you can possibly see why Santander are acting how they are.

Also, @JuicyJesus - If you're creating your own currency, how are people going to buy into them? Do you have a website dedicated to every single transaction that is coming in and out? Along with websites set up to track it's current price as well as independant wallets/banks to store it into?

No, because I made the JuicyJesus dollar up to sarcastically make a point, but if it did have all those features it STILL wouldn't be a viable currency because nobody worth a damn would accept it for anything and it would have no beneficial features over and above those provided by already extant currencies, WHICH WAS MY POINT.

Unlike your 'JuicyJesus dollars' bitcoin has a full record of all transactions that are sent in and out, called a blockchain. Bitcoins are held in a wallet or an escrow, like the one that the OP has used. Each is encrypted and has mutliple security factors to stop being accessing them, besides yourself.

Marvellous - you mean, like a bank account? That I can have now, and don't have to convert all my money to a near-useless currency to use, and provides numerous other features over and above Bitcoin? Wow. Sign me up to this amazing new inconvenience over what I and everyone else in the UK have right now.

Educate yourself before posting a reply.

I educated myself before I even came to this thread, which is why I actually know what I'm talking about and Bitcoin's fans don't.

Diastolic

JuicyJesus wrote: »

Congratulations, you assume I am completely ignorant about the subject I'm mocking.



Only so much is in circulation because for everyone except people who desperately want to buy into it for ideological reasons or just because they think it's a nice idea it is a solution in search of a problem. And not even a particularly good solution. It has no consumer protection for purchase of goods (whereas someone buying something online with a credit or debit card or, hell, even PayPal has simple measures they can take if they've been scammed or ripped off), it is only accepted in a tiny, tiny minority of shops and is grossly less accessible and more inconvenient than the prevailing national currencies it claims to be able to represent. Not to mention being vastly more unstable, being subject to a bubble driven by intense speculation. And bubbles inevitably pop, like the tech bubble did in the early 2000s and the housing bubble has recently.

And that situation WILL NOT change, no matter how much wishful thinking you or any other of Bitcoin's somewhat deluded supporters use, until the man on the street can DIRECTLY use Bitcoin to purchase goods and services essential for life from virtually any supplier I can choose AND there are enough numerate and significant benefits to said man-on-the-street in using it over extant currencies like pounds and dollars which justify the conversion to an entirely new currency. Right now there are none. Even I, someone technologically clued-up and financially clued-up, have no reason whatsoever to chuck my pounds in the bin and switch to Bitcoin.



Yes, wandering into an unregulated market and getting your bank accounts frozen because you do absolutely no due diligence checks on your clients and as a result receive stolen money in exchange for clean money is what I would describe as a "great job".



What a wonderful idea, except for the bit where the cost of the electricity and the hardware behind the mining is more than the Bitcoins themselves are worth.



It's a good thing that values of things can only ever go up and never down, especially when in and of themselves (and even right now, according to virtually everyone else) they have absolutely no intrinsic value and therefore their value is best described as "whatever other people who are also playing a game where they're hoping the value will never go down otherwise they lose big will pay for them". That's why people who have invested in shares and houses and precious metals have all become indescribably wealthy and are suffering no adverse consequences which might happen should the value of any of those things decrease, because it doesn't.



No, it wasn't, and no, he doesn't. If his account is frozen for suspected money laundering he cannot be given any information by anyone, hence why the branch manager HAS to lie, because "tipping off" someone that they are subject to an investigation carries a potential prison sentence. Any other bank would act the same way.

Add to that that Bitcoin is used to an incredible degree for criminal activity due to its anonymous, distributed nature, that using a personal account for business use is against the bank's conditions in the first place and that the OP HAS ADMITTED RECEIVING FRAUDULENTLY OBTAINED MONIES and you can possibly see why Santander are acting how they are.



No, because I made the JuicyJesus dollar up to sarcastically make a point, but if it did have all those features it STILL wouldn't be a viable currency because nobody worth a damn would accept it for anything and it would have no beneficial features over and above those provided by already extant currencies, WHICH WAS MY POINT.



Marvellous - you mean, like a bank account? That I can have now, and don't have to convert all my money to a near-useless currency to use, and provides numerous other features over and above Bitcoin? Wow. Sign me up to this amazing new inconvenience over what I and everyone else in the UK has right now.



I educated myself before I even came to this thread, which is why I actually know what I'm talking about and Bitcoin's fans don't.

tl;dr.

If OP wishes to invest his money into a virtual currency and make lots off it, why shouldn't he do so? You're taking this far too seriously and personally.