Npower bill doesn't even add up

joncombe

I know there have been many reported problems with NPower and their new billing system but the latest bill I have from them doesn't even add up.

I have this little gem:-

Your Direct Debit Account
Ongoing Gas Energy Usage
Balance on last bill : -£18.51
Cancelled bill on 12/02/2013 (inc. VAT of -£0.29) (Electricity -£0.29, Gas £0.00) : £0.00
Payment received with thanks on 01/03/2013 : £-24.00
Payment received with thanks on 02/04/2013: £-24.00
Account balance before charges : £-138.47

I make -£18.51 -£48 = £-66.51 so I've no idea where NPower get -£138.47.

Honestly I'm beginning to think the NPower billing system just generates random numbers and calls that a bill.

DragonQ

Surely that's not the whole bill? It looks as though you've spent £138.47 worth of gas, you had a balance of £18.51 (could be credit or debit, tis unclear), and have made two payments of £24. Either way you're in debit, but that's fine cos winter just ended.

joncombe

DragonQ wrote: »

Surely that's not the whole bill? It looks as though you've spent £138.47 worth of gas, you had a balance of £18.51 (could be credit or debit, tis unclear), and have made two payments of £24. Either way you're in debit, but that's fine cos winter just ended.

No it's not the whole bill. The whole bill on the gas side of things shows the following:-

Usage

Last Reading, 09/11/2012 1710 (Estimated)
This Reading, 28/01/2013 1836 (Actual)
Gas Used: Calorific Value 38.9, 126 (cubic metres) = 1392 kWh (how do they work this out? 126 is the difference between 1836 and 1710 bur the rest?)
Cost split = 1392 kWh at 8.515p.
Charges : £118.53
Direct Debit Discount: £-50.00
Subtotal ex VAT: £68.53
VAT at 5% : £3.43
Total charges for this period : £71.96

Your Direct Debit Account

Balance on Last Bill : £-18.51
Cancelled bill on 12/02/2013: £0.00
Payment received with thanks on 01/03/2013 : £-24.00
Payment received with thanks on 02/04/2013 : £-24.00
Account balance before charges : £-138.47

This Bill

Account balance before charges : £-138.47
Total energy charges this period: £71.96
Account balance for information: £-66.51


They then go onto calculate a "Personal Account Review", which is equally bizarre given I'm currently on a 2 unit rate with no standing charge since the charges seem to assume I'll continue on a 2 unit rate but with a standing charge (not the case).

Estimated gas units 1239 at 8.515p : £105.50
Estimated gas units 234 at 2.978p : £6.97
Estimated gas units 271 at 7.361p: £19.95
Estimated gas units 3038 at 3.681p: £109.92
286 Days Standing Charge at 46.900 pence per day : £134.13
VAT at 5%: £18.82
Total Estimate Gas Charges over the next 13 months (why 13?): £395.29
Account Balance brought forward : £-114.51
Less payment due on 1/5/2013 : £24.00
Total : £304.78
Divide by 9 months : £33.86
New payment amount : £34.00

So I'm not sure why I have 4 different gas rates estimated, a standing charge on top of that? Then the "Account balance bought forward" is another new number that appears no where else on the bill. The charge appears to be based on usage over the next 13 months, but the charge is then divided by 9 months. Equally I only have to pay the standing charge for 286 days. I've no idea where they get these numbers from, but it appears to me that Npowers billing system is little more than a random number generator.

DragonQ

Having 4 different gas unit prices usually means the price changed at some point. Your standing charge looks ridiculously high, as does your direct debit discount.

The whole "Your Direct Debit Account" bit looks like nonsense. Your "Account Balance brought forward" being £-114.51 must be from your previous balance of £-18.51, plus 4 payments of £24, which makes sense. But then I have no idea what your usage is it's apparently £71.96, but that whole section seems dodgy.

Bit of a head-scratcher.

joncombe

DragonQ wrote: »

Having 4 different gas unit prices usually means the price changed at some point. Your standing charge looks ridiculously high, as does your direct debit discount.

The whole "Your Direct Debit Account" bit looks like nonsense. Your "Account Balance brought forward" being £-114.51 must be from your previous balance of £-18.51, plus 4 payments of £24, which makes sense. But then I have no idea what your usage is it's apparently £71.96, but that whole section seems dodgy.

Bit of a head-scratcher.

You could well be right avbout the £-114.51 but the bill only shows 2 payments not 4. I have cancelled the direct debit with my bank to NPower until such time they can issue an accurate bill which adds up. I have spoken to NPower and they have marked my account for a manually generated bill but told it could take 28 days. In the mean time they have told me my supply with them will end on 8th May, so it looks like I'm going to be in the same situation as others here, that I'll have switched from Npower but they won't have been able to calculate a final bill by the switch date. Should I ask for the switch to be postponed until they can bill me correctly?

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

Hi joncombe,

Thanks for posting this.

joncombe wrote:

... This is basic stuff and NPower should not be able to get away with issuing bills that don't even add up! ...

Absolutely!

I have Posted a link to this thread from the main thread about the issues with npower's 'new system': see Post #196.

This is concerning and, I fear, similar to the very long running saga at EDF.

See EDF direct debit manipulation
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4292717
This EDF thread has had more than 300 Posts!
backfoot is in direct contact with Ofgem on this issue.
See Post #304 for his latest helpful Post.

25.6_Pre-contract_oblig

zerog

I think I understand what happened. Do you only get gas from npower? I need to see the cancelled bill from Feb and the bill before that to check I'm correct.

From 09/11/2012 to 28/01/2013 you used 126 cubic meters. To convert to kWh, multiply by 11.1 (approx) = 1392 kWh. The cost of that was £71.96.


You had a bill in Feb, which should have charged you £71.96 for the gas you used from Nov to Jan. Somehow that bill got cancelled and this was credited back to you.

In Feb, npower owed you £18.51. For some reason, they paid you back the £71.96, so they now owed that to you. You paid £24 twice, so they owe you another £48.

Adding those up, npower owed you £138.47 at that point.


On this bill, they charged you for the gas used from Nov to Jan again, so they now owe you £66.51.


They haven't charged you for gas used from Feb to Apr yet. Hopefully this will be done when they correct the bill (eventually?).



Don't worry about the next bit. I sort of understand it but can't be bothered to type it out. If you use less than 4572kWh a year (so about 412 units on the meter), you should switch supplier immediately.


I don't work for npower, I've just had similar problems to you which are mainly sorted now because I have switched supplier.

joncombe

zerog wrote: »

I think I understand what happened. Do you only get gas from npower? I need to see the cancelled bill from Feb and the bill before that to check I'm correct.

I get guess and electric, but only posted the gas part of the bill, because these charges seem to be most out of line.

From 09/11/2012 to 28/01/2013 you used 126 cubic meters. To convert to kWh, multiply by 11.1 (approx) = 1392 kWh. The cost of that was £71.96.


You had a bill in Feb, which should have charged you £71.96 for the gas you used from Nov to Jan. Somehow that bill got cancelled and this was credited back to you.

That's right, the bill for Feb shows £71.96. NPower told me they cancelled it because it was based on an estimated reading and now they have an actual reading issued a new bill. In fact only the Electric was estimated, the gas was from an actual reading.

In Feb, npower owed you £18.51. For some reason, they paid you back the £71.96, so they now owed that to you. You paid £24 twice, so they owe you another £48.

Adding those up, npower owed you £138.47 at that point.


On this bill, they charged you for the gas used from Nov to Jan again, so they now owe you £66.51.

I think you might be right, I'll double check with the previous and current bill. I think the issue is that when they cancelled the previous bill, this shows as £0.00 on the bill when it shouldn't, and as a result the rest of the figures are wrong and don't add up.[/quote]

They haven't charged you for gas used from Feb to Apr yet. Hopefully this will be done when they correct the bill (eventually?).



Don't worry about the next bit. I sort of understand it but can't be bothered to type it out. If you use less than 4572kWh a year (so about 412 units on the meter), you should switch supplier immediately.

Yes I'm in the process of switching to Scottish Power. NPower used to work out cheapest for me as a low user because whilst their unit rate was not the cheapest the discounts were higher than other suppliers (direct debit and dual fuel). I think the discounts worked out at £110 a year, which is not insignificant. Now they have gone for a high standing charge (around £15 a month for gas) it is uncompetitive hence why I'm already switching.

I don't work for npower, I've just had similar problems to you which are mainly sorted now because I have switched supplier.

Thanks, much appreciated for going to the effort of working it out. I wish NPower could actually issue bills that make sense but this is another reason to leave NPower. Issuing a bill should not be hard (multiply unit rates by units used, subtract payments received), but they seem to have messed my bill up each time they issue one for the last 18 months or so.

nPower

joncombe wrote: »

I know there have been many reported problems with NPower and their new billing system but the latest bill I have from them doesn't even add up.

I have this little gem:-

Your Direct Debit Account
Ongoing Gas Energy Usage
Balance on last bill : -£18.51
Cancelled bill on 12/02/2013 (inc. VAT of -£0.29) (Electricity -£0.29, Gas £0.00) : £0.00
Payment received with thanks on 01/03/2013 : £-24.00
Payment received with thanks on 02/04/2013: £-24.00
Account balance before charges : £-138.47

I make -£18.51 -£48 = £-66.51 so I've no idea where NPower get -£138.47.

Honestly I'm beginning to think the NPower billing system just generates random numbers and calls that a bill.

Hi joncombe,

That does look a little odd. Can you send me over your details to [EMAIL="forumresponse@npower.com"]forumresponse@npower.com[/EMAIL] and I can get this looked into for you?

Best,

Adam

joncombe

I've been in touch with the "Executive Complaints" team. They agree that figures are missing from the bill so it doens't add up. However they have still refused to re-issue a corrected bill because the rates I have been charged are still correct (even though the bill doesn't add up). In other words they still say the total is correct even though figures are missing so it doesn't add up. Instead they are going to issue a "statement of account" to be issued to prove I haven't been charged twice.

Shocking company.

Can I take this up with the Ombudsman? I don't think it's too much to ask to be given a bill that adds up.

dogshome

Can I take this up with the Ombudsman? I don't think it's too much to ask to be given a bill that adds up.[/QUOTE]

Yes you can and jollywell ought to