EDF direct debit manipulation

snowcat53

Good old EDF - they never get any better do they?

My mother's DD was put up from 125 to 180 in september despite being a little in credit. She hadnt noticed this so I investigated today.
The basis of this was an 'annual statement' This
1. used consumption for the last 12 months, (so far so good)
2. applied unknown factors to predict next 12 months use (less good) - works out as elec about same, gas up 5%
3 estimated costs, based on current (Fix 2012) tariff
This would give a figure of 130 per month, not 180. .

Her 'annual review' is due in December anyway and as the current tariff ends then it would seem sensible to leave changes to that point? We should know by that point what tariff she' ll be on after Fix for 2012 (if still with edf at all) and can work out costs and DD then.

So I rang to ask for an explanation

The rep tells me they work out the DD not on the estimated costs in the statement but on on standard tariff basis after December (this is not stated anywhere, so breaking SLC 27.14 imho). . So why not just review the DD in dec ? Oh we will anyway, but also in sept because this was more than 3 months away from it. (Triggered by a meter reader not the customer btw).

Why do they make it so complicated? DD should be costs spread over a year, and not continually changed by every new reading/bill, unless there are changes in tariff or expected consumption. .

I have to conclude they are manipulating the system to get interest free loans from the public.

Any chance of waking up Ofgem from their slumbers to do their job and enforce SLCs?

victor2

That's a different line from them. IME they just acknowledge their systems is screwed up and put the DD back to what it was, which was covering my usage. The last time they tried it, my account was in credit, but part of the adjustment was to account for my gas "debt". Without me even needing to mention that, they said the "system" sometimes makes adjustments for debts that don't exist.
Not sure your conclusion regarding manipulation is that right. I lean towards simple incompetence.

WestonDave

They are utter muppets! They seem to reckon that I'm going to use 50% more gas in the next 12 months than I did in the 12 months to date. When I asked them why this was they muttered something about the prediction still being lower than average which rather spectacularly missed the point. I've given up trying to interact with them - its like talking to a brick wall - as soon as I can move I'm out of there and never coming back. I'd rather pay a fraction more than deal with their systems (most of the staff are pleasant enough - they just don't have the tools to do the job properly).

GooliesOfFire

Is it better not to give them meter readings then?

steve-L

GooliesOfFire wrote: »

Is it better not to give them meter readings then?

For the new price fix they have added a clause that if you pay by DD they do not need to take actual use into consideration!

Why do they make it so complicated? DD should be costs spread over a year, and not continually changed by every new reading/bill, unless there are changes in tariff or expected consumption.

I disagree, surely they should reflect what you use?
If they send someone round to check the meter then they should use that, if not then they should have to take what the customer reads the meter as.

If I decide to live in the cold and dark to save money surely my bill should reflect that?

snowcat53

victor2 wrote: »

Not sure your conclusion regarding manipulation is that right. I lean towards simple incompetence.

I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist but here I think one can see evidence of intent not just incompetence (although that is there in plenty.as well) plus appalling systems that don't work.

In my experience (and most others I am aware of) the DD always increases. If it were random errors they would go down just as often . They also seem to take highly pssimisitc assumptions about future usage, winter weather, etc, all favourable to their cash flow.

snowcat53

GooliesOfFire wrote: »

Is it better not to give them meter readings then?

That is correct - best just to keep your own records as long as possible. . If you give them readings it triggers a DD recalculation. In my case a man came to read the meters so no choice

snowcat53

steve-L wrote: »

For the new price fix they have added a clause that if you pay by DD they do not need to take actual use into consideration!

So what do they use?!

steve-L wrote: »

I disagree, surely they should reflect what you use?
If they send someone round to check the meter then they should use that, if not then they should have to take what the customer reads the meter as.

If I decide to live in the cold and dark to save money surely my bill should reflect that?

Not sure i follow you or if we do disagree. What you use needs to be estimated over a whole cycle and based on past data where possible. Eg if you base DD on just summer period use it will be too low

jalexa

snowcat53 wrote: »

The rep tells me they work out the DD not on the estimated costs in the statement but on on standard tariff basis after December

I do not believe what an individual adviser says has any credibility. Over the last year I have had several adviser explanations which "complaints" did not want to rely on as correct.

I totally agree with Victor2's tactics but I have an open mind about what is going on. Manipulation would be a high risk strategy, OTOH Ofgem consumer affairs directorate appears uninterested in the issue. Remember the Consumer Focus interest in similar calculation outputs at E.ON (and their gushing self-congratulation at the outcome)? Yes I know that Consumer Focus is on death row but is that reason to be invisible?

It's interesting that your mother's review year is December to Decemeber. Each bill or statement now includes a statement of actual consumption going back 12 months, a projected usage going forward 12 months and projected cost based on err... something or other.

In other words the projection is "rolling" but the review year calculation is fixed:(. Not sure if that is "manipulation" but the calculation is wrong headed. I advocate taking every opportunity to restore the previous payment, though a "little in credit" in September is probably not adequate for a December balance except the direct debit rules allow for an 'annual review' debit balance of £150. If I was raising a complaint I'd just ask for a written explanation of the calculation. Or do both independently.

steve-L

snowcat53 wrote: »

So what do they use?!

Whatever they want..... (this is on the new price fix tariff, there is a thread on it..... I did predict this and people laughed and .. then it happened)

Not sure i follow you or if we do disagree. What you use needs to be estimated over a whole cycle and based on past data where possible. Eg if you base DD on just summer period use it will be too low

I think it should be based ONLY on meter readings if the customer is willing to phone once a month then they should have to use what you read as the use. If they don't beleive you because it doesn't fit 'what the computer say's' tough... send someone round to read it if you don't believe me!
Their ability to predict anything is always biassed int heir favour and even if its not the consumer gets the shock at the end of the year!

We have been led on down this estimated readings until we think its normal (it just saves them employing people to actually come and check) but now they have worked out they can over charge and effectively get FREE CREDIT.... at the customer's expense.

jalexa

steve-L wrote: »

Whatever they want..... (this is on the new price fix tariff, there is a thread on it..... I did predict this and people laughed and ..

I remember your point and we had a conversation about it.

I'm not worried in the slightest about their "new" wording. I tell Edf the accurately calculated figure I have in mind. Accept it or explain your calculation:D. Then accept it anyway or face the prospect of an Energy Ombudsman referral and a £350 case fee. Not had my "suggestion" refused in over a year. Which is a pity as I fancy a fight about the issue.

The issue is really not Edf but customers who think they have to take a what a supplier says at face value.