Flow Energy - anyone switched?

brucie24

As the last post here is from August last year I just wondered if anyone could update on current experience.

I'd especially like to hear from anyone with the flow boiler...

Thanks

momist

Sorry brucie24, I didn't qualify for the boiler, and am still on an old 1960's Crane boiler. However, I'm still with Flow, on their latest tariff, and have no desire to switch.

topicalcat

The Mchp boiler has been relaunched this month. They pulled the launch of this new boiler last summer when the European Courts told the UK that the VAT rate on energy saving products like this boiler had to be increased from 5% to 20%. So Flow went away and did some re-engineering to reduce costs. Also this month they announced new tarriffs at lower rates and have achieved a very good rating rating from Which magazine in their latest customer survey. They are one of only two energy suppliers to get recommended provider status (the other was Ovo). I think they are good and have had good service and prices for a couple of years now.

Good job I switched from Co-op energy who where good untill they had a melt down in their billing system. So have a look at Flows new Connect4 tarriff fixed to February 2017

System

Connect 4 would be about £60 per year for me on a £650 pa spend. I did take a hard look at the Flow boiler offer but I confess that I couldn't see how the figures stacked up. Moreover, I live in a 5 bed modern property with a 24kW gas boiler. The Flow boiler looks to be less powerful (18kW?); it is clearly more expensive - both in terms of basic cost plus installation, and the boiler itself only has a 5 year guarantee. The offer piqued my interest but I would need to know a lot more before considering such an innovative approach to home heating and electricity generation.

topicalcat

I have a 4 bed 1950's house. When the combi boiler packed up A few years back I had a woodburning stove with backboiler and large heat store water tank fitted. The wood burner is only 12kw and copes with house heating and hot water. Looking at the Flow boiler and reckon that 18w will be adequate. You just run it for a bit longer if it is less powerful, your existing boiler might be oversized? Given that a Flow boiler only generates electricity when it is on it will probably make sense to run it for longer at a lower setting to maximise the electricity generation. Worth getting a quote, you can always say thanks but no thanks if you are not impressed. I intend getting a quote soon.

System

topicalcat wrote: »

I have a 4 bed 1950's house. When the combi boiler packed up A few years back I had a woodburning stove with backboiler and large heat store water tank fitted. The wood burner is only 12kw and copes with house heating and hot water. Looking at the Flow boiler and reckon that 18w will be adequate. You just run it for a bit longer if it is less powerful, your existing boiler might be oversized? Given that a Flow boiler only generates electricity when it is on it will probably make sense to run it for longer at a lower setting to maximise the electricity generation. Worth getting a quote, you can always say thanks but no thanks if you are not impressed. I intend getting a quote soon.

I have just spent an hour so working through the figures and I am still struggling to see how this scheme works for the customer. On its website, Flow states that a boiler which consumes 35,000kWhs of gas per year will generate 2000kWhs of electricity. They also say that a boiler will consume an extra £40 worth of gas to generate this electricity. The FIT is £0.1345 per kWh with an export payment of £0.0485 per kWh. (I could't ascertain whether the 50% rule applied to assumed exports).

Again using Flow's assumed cost, a customer is looking at £5845 for a boiler with basic installation. This is about £2600 more than it would cost me for a Valiant condensing boiler with an 8 year guarantee.

For the purposes of keeping the calculations simple, I will assume that my gas usage increases to 17500kWhs per year and my electricity usage falls by 1000kWhs to reflect the micro CHP electrical output. On Connect 4, I would pay £160 per annum more and get a FIT income of about £150 per year (assuming 50%) export. We will certainly be a lot warmer, as we currently use less than 10000kWhs of gas per annum but we would be £10 a year worse off. In other words, there would seem to be no payback for the extra costs of the boiler - which is only a condensing boiler plus. The 'plus' having a 5 year warranty if I was to take my energy from Flow. I could, of course, just take a punt and buy my energy from elsewhere but I would need to know what potential costs I am facing.

I am clearly missing an important piece of the jigsaw. The other worrying thing is that Micro CHP FITs are out for consultation. This generally means that DECC is minded to reduce them.

elizabeth2015

I dont have a boiler. But I am in the process of moving from Eon to Flow for electricity on an Economy 7 meter.
After about 3 weeks I was emailed for a meter reading. I submitted this online as directed, but decided to follow up with a phone call and was glad I did. They had got the daytime and nighttime figures the wrong way round. They admitted there was a known bug on the system that was causing this. Not the best of starts and am awaiting the next stage in the process and then checking that end and start figures tally.
I got through on the phone fairly quickly and customer service was very good. Hopefully just an initial glitch as often seems to happen when moving suppliers. Their website seems very basic, a bit amateurish compared to the big companies, but hopefully it will be ok. I will definitely be double checking my meter readings in future to make sure they are being entered correctly and would advise anyone moving to them, if you have night and day time readings, to do so too.
I hope it goes well as I like the idea of supporting the smaller companies. I have already moved my gas supply to Ebico and am very happy with them.

System

elizabeth2015 wrote: »

I hope it goes well as I like the idea of supporting the smaller companies. I have already moved my gas supply to Ebico and am very happy with them.

I hate to burst your bubble:

Under the rules of Ofgem, the energy supply market’s regulator, electricity and gas must be delivered to your meter by a licensed supplier; so our partnership with SSE enables us to work with them to deliver energy to you. This means that Ebico customers will have an energy supply contract with SSE. SSE will also be the company that collects meter readings, sends out your Ebico bills and statements, and collects payment.

elizabeth2015

Yes I did know that. Smaller companies do tend to do that though - get their energy from larger companies. Anyway I've been with Ebico a year now and no problems and communication has been good. I use little gas and there is no standing charge so I've cut my bill in half.
Oh yes, and there is no penalty not paying by DD, so I pay quarterly by cheque and am never over or under paying as I can always adjust bill before paying. Suits me just fine.

footyguy

elizabeth2015 wrote: »

Yes I did know that. Smaller companies do tend to do that though - get their energy from larger companies. Anyway I've been with Ebico a year now and no problems and communication has been good. I use little gas and there is no standing charge so I've cut my bill in half.
Oh yes, and there is no penalty not paying by DD, so I pay quarterly by cheque and am never over or under paying as I can always adjust bill before paying. Suits me just fine.

Not quite.

Ebico is a white label supplied by SSE. There are some other tariffs such as Sainsburys that is supplied by British Gas. The only difference though is that British Gas simply use the Sainsburys name under licence, whist Ebico is a company in it's own right ... but does not actually have a supply licence. They supply under the SSE supply licence, and as such all energy supplied by Ebico is actually supplied by SSE.

There are a number of small companies though that do have their own supply licence.

All licenced suppliers buy, to a greater or lesser extent, energy from the open market. (although the Big 6 may have their own generation companies too).

As for Ebico not penalising anyone for not paying by DD. Well that is one way to look at things. But the way they themselves word it is that they do not offer any discount to those customers that pay monthly by DD, despite this being cheaper for Ebico, as they use that saving to subsidise those on PPMs which are usually more expensive with other suppliers, reflecting the higher ongoing costs of supply via such a meter.

I would urge you to consult a comparison site to find the best deal for you. Ebico are usually only competitive for low users, particularly those with PPMS (because of the effective subsidy already explained). Anyone with a credit meter needs to be on extremely low usage for Ebico to be cost competitive.

But if you like them, despite their high cost, then I suggest you don't change. But their billing & customer service is actually supplied by SSE, and in future your bills will show if SSE can offer a cheaper tariff than the Ebico one (and similarly SSE customers will be alerted to the Ebico tariffs should they be cheaper for those customers)