Figuring out my boundary and neighbour's outhouse!

sgtivypie

Hi All,

just wondered if anyone can help me at all. We bought a house and the garden is a funny shape. We have got an outhouse jutting out into our garden that used to be an outside toilet back in the day (it's an old terraced). From origional plans it looks like every house had these but now only this one remains. I'm sure it's my neighbours but it's bizarre that it comes out into my garden to make it a funny shape and if that's the case then everyone's would have done that rather then just having a square garden with your toilet in your own garden.
My neighbour's are private renting and their landlord is an awful man. When we first moved in we asked politely if there was any chance he would sell us the outhouse so that we can have a decent sized and shaped garden but he told us "I don't use it but No because I like annoying people"!!
If it is his then that's fine but I'd like him to maintain it. In the past someone has painted it and now the paint is all peeing off and looks really scruffy. It's crumbling in parts. And there's no guttering on the roof so rain is just running off it and onto my patio which is then getting waterlogged and damaged. My french doors are facing this big ugly brick wall, it's awful to look at.
I just don't know what to do. Can anyone give me any advice??
Thanks, Bekah

keystone

Oops! Sorry Mr Nasty Neighbour - it slipped.

Cheers

stef73

If he wont sell it rub down the wall with a wire brush, paint it with white masionary paint then grow a clematis up the wall. Buy some guttering and run the water back over to his side to stop your side flooding. Thats what i would do if he wont sell it and i had to look at the wall.

WillCalderwood

Or grow some ivy all over it. Love, nurture and fertilise it. It wont take too long for it to destroy an old outhouse!

sgtivypie

what a FAB reply Keystone!!
You wouldn't believe how many times I've considered gradually damaging it until it falls down. But my partner is too worried about us getting in trouble

Funnily enough stef73 and WillCalderwood that's exactly what I've done today. I've attached some trellis and planted Clematis in a large trough pot at the bottom.
Hopefully that will cover it up at least. Think my next job is to put some guttering on it like you say.
Just wondering though, where do I stand legally by attaching guttering to his building? Also, where do I stand legally if my plants damage his building??

WillCalderwood

No idea where you stand legally with the plants. Although it's worth noting that while not as pretty, ivy is far more destructive than a clematis.

You could drop an email to the last registry to see if they can help in resolving who owns what. Maybe ask some land lawyer type character. If the outhouse is your boundary, and isn't classed as a party wall, then as far as I'm aware you can do what you want with the boundary bit of it. If it's his boundary, then you can't really touch it.

I'd also just like to say, the owner of the other place sounds like an a*se.

juliebunny

I would agree with other about first checking land registry to see the exact borders (although I assume this came up when you first bought the house?). I had a similar issue with my garden, they told me that there was an odd bit of my garden where I owned part of next doors and they mine - used to be an old bin shed apparently. But to look at the house, it is now just a direct line fence and I'm sure she doesn't have a clue. I thought about asking her to work with land registry to have it altered (not sure what she would have said, she's a bit unpredicable) but then figured that if we just live like it for 10 years or something then some rule says it can be put right without her consent anyway?

How often does the landlord come round? Thank goodness at least that he doesn't live there. I wonder what state of repair the rest of the house is in. I would tend to agree with not pulling it down, he could decide to do something even worse with the space. I wouldn't worry about putting up gutter, he probably won't even notice.

Land_Registry

The Land Registry title plan may well show the 'funny shape' as mentioned above and by other posters. However if it is not that large an outhouse it may not be revealed as the title plan shows the general boundaries at a scale of 1:1250 for residential areas.

As juliebunny mentions you may have a copy from the time you bought the house. If not then you can check online via our FAQ and our online service called Find a Property - £3 for a copy of the title plan if available online

Before using the service though do take some time to read about the service as well as the other FAQs and online guidance around boundaries and plans - these won't give you all the answers you want to all of the questions but they will provide you with a better understanding of how such matters are registered etc.

If the title plan offers no clear information sometimes the actual register will. For example if the houses were all built by the same developer/builder then there may be reference to one of the original deeds to the property for example the Transfer to the first owner of the house which contains wider information and possibly a plan to a larger scale or indeed refers specifically to the outhouses - there is no golden rule on this but sometimes it is worth checking the register and any available documents as well.

You can obtain copies of deeds referred to on the register by post - our online FAQ explains more and obtaining copies attracts a further fee.

Do bear in mind though that the title plan, register and any referred to documents will provide information only and they may contain nothing relevant to the outhouse. If they do then how that information is interpreted, used or enforced is something you would need to get legal advice on

sgtivypie

Hi Land Registry Rep,

thanks for the advice. The title plan I have from buying the house shows it as a different shape than what it actually is so I'm a bit confused. It's hard to explain it properly without a drawing. It may be that as you say it is because it is done to scale.
If I get the title plan to next doors house from the land registry website would it at least show me if either of the bits 'cut out of my garden' whether the real life shape or the shape on my title plan belongs to next door?

If it does belong to him then I could do with some legal advice on getting him to maintain it :mad:

cyclonebri1

I would avoid the advice given by a few here, if he is such a !!!!!! as you say, if he finds out you have done anything to his property then he may cause you some expense in putting it back to it's former state even if that means cleaning of new paint or repairing ivy damaged walls.

I'm not on his side by any means but tread varily.

These toilets were normally semi detached if that makes sense, do you think the whole unit has been left standing, and 1/2 of it is actually yours?

Is there a bricked up access point on your house facing side?

princeofpounds

Yes the 'two neighbour's toilet' outhouse is something I have seen before, it's worth thinking about.

The land registry plan might tell you something, but the truth is that it's only a guide to the boundaries. Real boundaries are defined by physical features on the ground, which can and do vary from the plan either due to accuracy or changes.

Read the sticky threads 'put your tape measure away' and 'A very informative post...'

http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=4

The point is that even if the plan shows a straight line, if he has had possession of that outhouse long enough and uninterrupted then the outhouse will be the boundary. You will need to do some research, perhaps with previous owners, to understand this.

Obviously if it was only built or occupied by him in recent years then you might be able to change things legally.

Remember that your land starts right up against this outhouse. So as long as you do not damage it with things like screws and fixings you can do what you like to beautify it. With enough support at ground level, you should be able to put trellis up maybe an inch or two from the wall.

Painting is a more grey area, but if you were simply to restore the paint you could see then it would be hard for him to claim damages, because he will have suffered no real loss or damage. So it's to be more carefully considered, but it might be an option.

As for the damage caused by the water coming off the structure, you might have legal remedy there as his structure is causing actual damage to your property. You'll find a number of threads on the gardenlaw forum about this precise problem.

Remember that if you start neighbourly disputes it can make it hard to sell on a property later on, and if they escalate they can get expensive.