Sanctions

Dovah_diva

mysterywoman10 wrote: »

I know personally of at least 10 people who have recently been made redundant in their late 50's of whom 5 of whom have been sanctioned for so say not trying hard enough, all of whom have worked all their lives without claiming unemployment benefits for any period of time before. Sad state of affairs.

Everyone who lives in the real world who is claiming JSA knows the slightest and smallest dreamed up reason will get you sanctioned, whether you have paid into the system all your life or not!!

We've all seen the target letters for sanctioning or have you not?

And I personally know of at least five people who have been on JSA for a while and have never been sanctioned.

We can all trot out 'Uncle Norman' stories to bolster our point.

seven-day-weekend

I don't know anyone who has recently been made redundant,(although my son was, three years ago, he got another job straight away luckily) nor sanctioned. I do know a lady I know has been on JSA for years and never been sanctioned.

seven-day-weekend

clemmatis wrote: »

Ah. Another one... Perhaps you'd like to address my argument in para 1. of #83, which explicitly addresses the general effect of such moves.
.

If they move to an area where there is work, then they won't be putting anyone out of a job.

When my dad moved from Norwich, in the 1940s and 1950s he came to get a job in an aircraft factory that had trouble recruiting enough people locally.

More recently , two factories (Moog and Jaguar/Landrover) have recently opened up in my city :beer:and whilst hoping vacancies can be filled with a local workforce, if someone from outside the area can fill a vacancy then it is still one less Jobseeker and still good for our local economy.

http://www.expressandstar.com/business/midlands-business/2012/10/02/moog-factory-opened-at-i54-in-wolverhampton/

http://www.wolverhampton.gov.uk/business/regeneration/i54/

clemmatis

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

If they move to an area where there is work, then they won't be putting anyone out of a job.

When my dad moved from Norwich, in the 1940s and 1950s he came to get a job in an aircraft factory that had trouble recruiting enough people locally.

More recently , two factories (Moog and Jaguar/Landrover) have recently opened up in my city :beer:and whilst hoping vacancies can be filled with a local workforce, if someone from outside the area can fill a vacancy then it is still one less Jobseeker and still good for our local economy.

http://www.expressandstar.com/business/midlands-business/2012/10/02/moog-factory-opened-at-i54-in-wolverhampton/

http://www.wolverhampton.gov.uk/business/regeneration/i54/

I wanted to address the point about putting someone else out of a job, so thanks for raising it. What I wanted to say, though, was that I didn't want to imply I was blaming the person who took the job or saying people shouldn't move to.get a job. My concern is with the notion that because some have done this successfully -- my mother's cousin was notably successful in the US when there were no jobs of his type here -- other jobseekers should be attacked for not doing it *at a time when there are far fewer jobs than jobseekers*.

My point is based on aggregate statistics that show clearly 1. a massive excess of jobseekers over jobs 2. massive regional differences in the ratio -- as high in some places as 35 to 1 -- but nonetheless totally still a massive excess. Obviously there are nonetheless instances like the ones you mention and I've no reason not to welcome them.

clemmatis

Dovah_diva wrote: »

And I personally know of at least five people who have been on JSA for a while and have never been sanctioned.

We can all trot out 'Uncle Norman' stories to bolster our point.

New member?

Yes indeed we can all trot out stories. Dunroamin and seven-day-weekend, who thanked you, did that very thing...

clemmatis

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I don't know anyone who has recently been made redundant,(although my son was, three years ago, he got another job straight away luckily) nor sanctioned. I do know a lady I know has been on JSA for years and never been sanctioned.

Wasn't your son once unemployed for quite some while? (Did he move to find a job?)

Sanctions -- it's high time this thread was moved -- I doubt the DWP will be better than the NHS, who wrote to me and my GPs threatening sanctions against me for allegedly missing an appointment. There was no such appointment. (I was a patient at the clinic. They'd cancelled several appointments.)

seven-day-weekend

clemmatis wrote: »

Wasn't your son once unemployed for quite some while? (Did he move to find a job?)

Sanctions -- it's high time this thread was moved -- I doubt the DWP will be better than the NHS, who wrote to me and my GPs threatening sanctions against me for allegedly missing an appointment. There was no such appointment. (I was a patient at the clinic. They'd cancelled several appointments.)

Yes, he was unemployed for a couple of years from 2005-2007. During this period he had some very temporary employment, ( a week or two here and there) some work trials, (didn't work out for various reasons) some work placements and a month or two of sickness. No he didn't move.

He then took the first job he was offered which was an eight-hour contract at a major retailer and actually paid less than Jobseekers' Allowance. He quite often was given more than eight hours but that is all his contract was. He was made redundant in (I think) 2010 because his particular store closed.

Luckily he got a job straight away at a major supermarket where he still is and has been trained on various departments. This is permanent, but started as a sixteen-hour contract and is now 25 hours. He has not had a full-time contract since 2004.

You will note that he was prepared to take less than a full-time job.

He claims no State Benefits at all.

He lives with his girlfriend in a flat that he is buying on a mortgage.

Hope this helps.

clemmatis

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Yes, he was unemployed for a couple of years from 2005-2007. During this period he had some very temporary employment, ( a week or two here and there) some work trials, (didn't work out for various reasons) some work placements and a month or two of sickness. No he didn't move.

He then took the first job he was offered which was an eight-hour contract at Matalan and actually paid less than Jobseekers' Allowance. He quite often was given more than eight hours but that is all his contract was. He was made redundant in (I think) 2010 because his particular Matalan store closed.

Luckily he got a job straight away at Morrison's where he still is and has been trained on various departments. This is permanent, but started as a sixteen-hour contract and is now 25 hours. He has not had a full-time contract since 2004.

He claims no State Benefits at all.

He lives with his girlfriend in a flat that he is buying on a mortgage.

Hope this helps.

So he didn't claim JSA during those years? I'd have had no problem with his doing that and not moving to look for a job. There are reasons -- valid ones -- why people might not. I am really sorry to hear his jobs have been so precarious -- that is, have been less than full-time -- too. The issue for me is one of consistency and of an understanding that -- as I said in my first post -- we cannot necessarily generalise from "X moved to a different English county to get a job" to "the long term unemployed can and should up sticks" *particularly at a time of high unemployment*.

I

seven-day-weekend

Yes he did claim JSA whilst he was unemployed. He had to sign off when he got a few weeks of work, then sign on again when it had finished. He claims no State Benefits now even though he is on a low wage.

I understand it is not possible for everyone to move to find work, (my son could not have moved at the time) but some people on here think it should not even be suggested.

Morlock

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

But surely being too ill would not result in a sanction? Surely it's if you just don't turn up and offer no explanation, or fail to turn up on time ?

Being too ill to turn up to the Work Programme would result in a sanction. A claimant is allowed two 'sick days', any further non-attendance for illness results in a sanction, even if the work programme provider has had prior notification of non-attendance.