Tmobile price increase

anna2007

timbouk wrote: »

Many thanks for this. I followed your advice and have had a reply from OFCOM.



Key point of this email is EVERYONE needs to fill in that form, it only takes 5 minutes!

Totally agree, and exactly the same response that I received from them yesterday. I know that OFCOM can't look at individual cases, but the more people who use their online form to report the breach of contract terms, the more likely they are to take notice and get involved.

d123

Guys_Dad wrote: »

You have got yourself in a bit of a cleft stick here.

First of all, let me say you are 100% correct in what you are trying to do and I agree that they have broken their t&c. So I start from a position of being on your side.

Let's suppose they go with your letter, give you your PAC code and you then use it. You could easily find yourself in the position of tsandcs on this thread. You get hit with a bill for the balance of your contract.

Don't worry, I would make sure to get the "no penalty" part in writing before I used the PAC .

daveuk1

Guys_Dad wrote: »

You are a little misinformed about both points.

I left Orange early to go to Ovivo a couple of weeks ago. Rang up, asked for my PAC code, they gave it to me, telling me that I would have to pay off remaining contract. As it was only a month, I was quite happy.

No business sets out to trash a credit file. What happens is every month all businesses update the credit agencies with the record for their customers who have some form of credit with them - mobile networks, gas, electric, HP companies, mortgage lenders etc, etc. If your account is outstanding, that is what is recorded as a matter of fact, just as it is if it is up to date. So it is not an act of vindictiveness or bloody mindedness to inform the credit agencies, just an automatic process.

Not entirely sure what your point is on the first issue. You seem to be agreeing with me. You were told you had to pay outstanding amounts when your PAC was issued. In any event, I'm not sure that your individual experience differing from my experience working in the mobile industry for 7 years constitutes my being misinformed.

As to having your credit file trashed, thanks for the explanation but I'm well aware how the system works. I guess it comes down to what you mean by having your credit file trashed. A couple of months of late payments that can easily be amended by the data provider is not a major issue in my view. You're not just going to get a default appearing immediately. Hence my comments.

anna2007

I think the point is not to request a PAC code at this stage, as it could prove problematic, as seems to be the case with stsandcs' situation.

RandomCurve

The only thingthat matters here is that T-Mobile have breached their T&Cs by putting in a price increase over RPI (3.3% instead of 3.2%). Material detrimentis totally irrelevant (think about it – if you reduced your monthly DD by 1p do you think –T-Mobile will ignore it or pursue it ??? – rhetorical question don’tanswer we need to stick to the point!!).

So how do you cancel your contract within the terms and conditions– even if they ignore your letter or send you a standard “We have the right to ….letter”?

1 – Write to T-Mobile at the address given in Clause 9 c – “CustomerRelations, T-Mobile, Hatfield Business Park, Hertfordshire, AL10 9BW” (note theaddress is different to the one they send the letter from – another trap)? You MUST do this BEFORE the price increase takes effect (9th May on myletter);

2 – State that you are cancelling without penalty as per clause 2C iii B as they have notified you of an increase above the RPI that the contract allows;

3 – State that as per Clause7a you are terminating with immediate effect –also state that they should send you a useable PAC code and a phone UNLOCK code and that by doing so they acknowledge your right to cancel without penalty;

4- State that if they do not comply with the contract then you will be in a GENUINE DISPUTE with T-Mobile as per clause 4A and B due to their Breach of contract as set outabove and will withhold ALL payments with immediate effect until the dispute is resolved (note you are NOT cancelling the contract –you are withholding payment as per clause4A and . Remember you want to exercise your RIGHT to CANCEL the contract – thus the WHOLE AMOUNT is in dispute;

5 – State that as you are in dispute, you will repay any sums withheld should the dispute be decided in T-Mobiles favour, therefore T-Mobile have no right to pursue you for any sum “owed” until the dispute is resolved, therefore if they do pursue, or take any action that impacts on your credit rating in anyway, you will seek legal redress through the courts.

If the above has no effect in that they continue to ignore you (which is unlikely after you suspend the DD) then begin a small claims action against them - details on how to do this can be found on various websites (if you lose the case – you DO NOT have to pay their costs, you only forfeit the court fee, and if you stick to BREACH OF CONTRACT and don’t get pulled into any of the side issues then you should win). WHATEVER T-Mobile say to you in writing or in court– ignore it and just repeat that your action is relation to BREACH OF CONTRACT Clause 2C iii B and nothing else (Thank you for your letter of XX, but as per my letter of YY my action against you is due to your Breach of contact……).


Don’t be dis-heartened if T-Mobile ignore you or try to fob you off, as it is in their interest to keep a lid on this until after the price risecomes into effect so that they minimise the number of customers who canceltheir contracts as above.


Good luck everyone

anna2007

RandomCurve wrote: »

The only thingthat matters here is that T-Mobile have breached their T&Cs by putting in a price increase over RPI (3.3% instead of 3.2%). Material detrimentis totally irrelevant (think about it – if you reduced your monthly DD by 1p do you think –T-Mobile will ignore it or pursue it ??? – rhetorical question don’tanswer we need to stick to the point!!).

So how do you cancel your contract within the terms and conditions– even if they ignore your letter or send you a standard “We have the right to ….letter”?

1 – Write to T-Mobile at the address given in Clause 9 c – “CustomerRelations, T-Mobile, Hatfield Business Park, Hertfordshire, AL10 9BW” (note theaddress is different to the one they send the letter from – another trap)? You MUST do this BEFORE the price increase takes effect (9th May on myletter);

2 – State that you are cancelling without penalty as per clause 2C iii B as they have notified you of an increase above the RPI that the contract allows;

3 – State that as per Clause7a you are terminating with immediate effect –also state that they should send you a useable PAC code and a phone UNLOCK code and that by doing so they acknowledge your right to cancel without penalty;

4- State that if they do not comply with the contract then you will be in a GENUINE DISPUTE with T-Mobile as per clause 4A and B due to their Breach of contract as set outabove and will withhold ALL payments with immediate effect until the dispute is resolved (note you are NOT cancelling the contract –you are withholding payment as per clause4A and . Remember you want to exercise your RIGHT to CANCEL the contract – thus the WHOLE AMOUNT is in dispute;

5 – State that as you are in dispute, you will repay any sums withheld should the dispute be decided in T-Mobiles favour, therefore T-Mobile have no right to pursue you for any sum “owed” until the dispute is resolved, therefore if they do pursue, or take any action that impacts on your credit rating in anyway, you will seek legal redress through the courts.

If the above has no effect in that they continue to ignore you (which is unlikely after you suspend the DD) then begin a small claims action against them - details on how to do this can be found on various websites (if you lose the case – you DO NOT have to pay their costs, you only forfeit the court fee, and if you stick to BREACH OF CONTRACT and don’t get pulled into any of the side issues then you should win). WHATEVER T-Mobile say to you in writing or in court– ignore it and just repeat that your action is relation to BREACH OF CONTRACT Clause 2C iii B and nothing else (Thank you for your letter of XX, but as per my letter of YY my action against you is due to your Breach of contact……).


Don’t be dis-heartened if T-Mobile ignore you or try to fob you off, as it is in their interest to keep a lid on this until after the price risecomes into effect so that they minimise the number of customers who canceltheir contracts as above.


Good luck everyone

Wow, well done, what a fantastic, informative post! I now feel like I've only gone into this in a half-hearted way. I stated in my letter that I'd continue to make payment of any charges, but under protest... I'm away to draft another letter following your template - thank you

d123

An excellent letter, but I would correct one thing, the dispute procedure appears to have changed section number, it is actually Section 4.4.5.1 and 4.4.5.2 in the T&CS now.

4.4.5. If You don’t pay a bill by the date set out on it You will have broken an important condition which is a fundamental part of this Agreement between You and Us and this will entitle Us to suspend Your SIM Card from the Network and/or terminate this Agreement immediately and charge You a Cancellation Charge except where:

4.4.5.1. You have a genuine dispute with Us; and

4.4.5.2. Before the date by which Your bill must be paid, You have written (see point 9.6) to Us setting out the details of Your dispute, including the amount of Your claim against Us and the amount You intend to withhold as disputed.

If the amount You intend to withhold is less than the total amount You owe Us then You must pay the difference by the date set out on the bill. If You don’t, then We can terminate this Agreement immediately.

And the authorised address now falls in section 9.6

9.6. Unless otherwise stated in this Agreement, any notices from You to Us must be sent to:
Customer Relations, T-Mobile, Hatfield Business Park, Hatfield, Hertfordshire, AL10 9BW.

RandomCurve wrote: »

4- State that if they do not comply with the contract then you will be in a GENUINE DISPUTE with T-Mobile as per clause 4A and B due to their Breach of contract as set outabove and will withhold ALL payments with immediate effect until the dispute is resolved (note you are NOT cancelling the contract –you are withholding payment as per clause4A and . Remember you want to exercise your RIGHT to CANCEL the contract – thus the WHOLE AMOUNT is in dispute;

Guys_Dad

daveuk1 wrote: »

Not entirely sure what your point is on the first issue. You seem to be agreeing with me. You were told you had to pay outstanding amounts when your PAC was issued. In any event, I'm not sure that your individual experience differing from my experience working in the mobile industry for 7 years constitutes my being misinformed.

As to having your credit file trashed, thanks for the explanation but I'm well aware how the system works. I guess it comes down to what you mean by having your credit file trashed. A couple of months of late payments that can easily be amended by the data provider is not a major issue in my view. You're not just going to get a default appearing immediately. Hence my comments.

The first point - I have used my PAC code but haven't had the cancellation charge as yet. So this is at a variance from your post.

On the second point about a couple of late payments being easy to correct, this conflicts with many threads on this forum from people who can't get networks to amend the records.

gjchester

daveuk1 wrote: »

In practice, PACs are not usually issued until outstanding amounts are settled so this situation shouldn't arise.

Networks cannot refuse a PAC request on the grounds there is an amount outstanding. and remember the cancellation charges will not apply until you use the PAC, if you choose not to use it the contract continues and there are no charges. If you use the PAC then the charges will appear on the final bill after your account is closed, no different to any other form of cancellation.


http://ask.ofcom.org.uk/help/telephone/refuse_PAC



The only reasons why a provider can refuse to give a PAC are:

• the number does not belong to the customer of the losing mobile provider
• the account for that number has been terminated
• the account holder has died
• a PAC has already been issued and is still valid
• the customer has not adequately proved that he or she is the legitimate account holder.

Your provider cannot refuse to issue a PAC if you have any outstanding bills or charges to pay.

RandomCurve

d123 wrote: »

An excellent letter, but I would correct one thing, the dispute procedure appears to have changed section number, it is actually Section 4.4.5.1 and 4.4.5.2 in the T&CS now.


A good point to note thanks d123 - like another company you may of heard of (Orange - spot a pattern?) there are several versions of the T&Cs out there - quote the clauses for the T&Cs version that you have.

I'm going to email various news agencies and consumer groups with my letter to see if we can get some much needed publicity -anyone out there work in media?