Air to water heat source system

conger

Hi, thanks for all your comments. I dug further and found further questions. I decided to cancel and have cancelled the deposit cheque. Just had a call from the sales rep who tried hard to change my mind. He said i would be missing out on the government payments coming in october and that I would regret it. He also explained that the company had been going for 10 years but the new company was just set up last year due to keep this new venture seperate. Apparently the system was going to come with a an IWA guarentee which would of continued if the selling company were no more.

Whether it was the right decision or not I may not find out. I least I wont have the worries of the systems, noise complaints and dealing with unknown companies.

I will explore gas options with local companies.

Cardew

Leaving aside the ASHP v Gas discussion(and IMO it is a 'no brainer' as all above state.) it would be the 10 year guarantee that would concern me.

Presumably it is from the firm? If so they are really not worth the paper they are written on. It is all too easy for firms to cease trading and open up again with a different name and any guarantee from the old firm is null and void. The solar industry developed that to an art form!

nande2000

Sounds like an insurance backed guarantee, rather than one tied to the firm itself.

Best to walk away though, any company selling an ASHP to you when you have mains gas will be cowboys.

matelodave

I think it's obvious that there are some on this thread who would rather die than have a heat-pump however, with a properly designed system and knowing how they work they do a good job and can be significantly more economical to run than LPG or Oil although it's a close run thing with mains gas with a decent high efficiency boiler

There are many out there who have been seduced by the promise of fantastic savings and just replaced their boilers with one and found that they don't do what's been promised - either the house isn't warm enough or they are costing a fortune to run.

They work differently to a normal boiler and so the heating system should be designed to take that difference into account, likewise the user needs to know how to get the best out of the system and thats means using it in a different way to a conventional system.

As I said above we chose to have one as part of a completely new system and decided we did not want a gas or oil tank or a solid fuel store nor the hassle of getting them replenished.

Our system works for us, our present electricity bill is still 20% lower than our combined gas/electricity was in our previous house with a condensing combi boiler (nearly three years ago). We have about the same floor space as our previous house, but now we are in a bungalow with twice the roof area and live in a much more exposed location. We are also in the house for most of the time now whereas befor we were out most days. However if we had access to mains gas then that's what I would have installed

It works for some and not for others but treat the comments from the naysayers in a similar manner to those who totally extol the virtues - they are both wrong and the truth is somewhere in the middle.

You need to do a lot of research to decide if it will do it for you and it will take a long time to payback any savings, even longer if you are replacing a working boiler just to try and get savings.

Dont rely on the RHI to cushion the cost - if it happens then it's a bonus but I confidently expect it to die an unatural death before it gets implemented

Silent_Dancer

jeepjunkie wrote: »

I think what cardew is saying is I and others should consider first and foremost is to update the existing LPG system or possibly install an oil system... The problem with these fossil fuels, and I've had both, is the price is highly volatile with LPG attracting the most awful contracts. Basically the suppliers charge as much as they can possibly get away with. It's all very well quoting EST/Which figures but they are generalisations often out of date. Honestly the amout of articles i've seen written about ASHP/GSHPs the journos clearly have no idea what they are on about. I try to give real world experiences...

With being all electric I have the option of shopping around the big energy suppliers, certainty of supply, convenience and not to forgetting the investment in solar PV which many have. The beauty of which the ASHP has started to run for free in the sunshine now winter is over. Not to be sniffed at if the house is occupied during the day. That of course adds a slant to my figures...

So the price of electricity is not volatile? Where does most of electricity come from? The answer is fosil fuels. So if the price of gas goes up so does your electricity.

The government is loading electricity bills to pay for wind turbines and kick backs like the RHI and FITs.

And look at Germany. The decision to move away from nuclear has resulted in Europe's most expensive electricity.

Cardew

matelodave wrote: »

It works for some and not for others but treat the comments from the naysayers in a similar manner to those who totally extol the virtues - they are both wrong and the truth is somewhere in the middle.

You need to do a lot of research to decide if it will do it for you and it will take a long time to payback any savings, even longer if you are replacing a working boiler just to try and get savings.

Dont rely on the RHI to cushion the cost - if it happens then it's a bonus but I confidently expect it to die an unatural death before it gets implemented

I am perhaps one of the leading Naysayers on this forum. I am simply quoting from the many people who have a bad experience and the FIT trial.

Have you read this WHICH report and the EST report?

http://www.which.co.uk/energy/creating-an-energy-saving-home/guides/ground-source-heat-pumps-explained/ground-source-heat-pumps---trial-results/

Heat pump trial – key findings

The study found that only 13% of all sites in the trial achieved a level of efficiency the EST considers to be a 'well-performing' system, with the rest scoring below this benchmark. Ground source heat pumps were found to be slightly more efficient than air source heat pumps.


The report concluded that the worst-performing sites illustrate how customers need to be completely sure they're investing in the best system for their property and lifestyle.

Links to the EST trial can be found here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2968958

You may be happy with your system, but many are not, and the results of the trial - with all the major manufacturers involved - was frankly a disaster.

The point is that people shouldn't be expected to pay £10,000+ and take pot luck that they have a satisfactory system.

albyota

Oh dear,.........not again.......!

For the benefit of newcomers.

[Deleted User]

Silent_Dancer wrote: »

So the price of electricity is not volatile?

That's right electricity is not volatile. My electricity price has gone up by 2p a unit in three years. Something that is not possible in the LPG/Oil world. And sometimes it is even free thanks to PV. Not really comparable...

Cheers

Cardew

albyota wrote: »

Oh dear,.........not again.......!

For the benefit of newcomers.

Also for those in the business of installing heat pumps.;)

Wouldn't it be excellent if the heat pump manufacturers gave a guarantee that one of their pumps installed in a house would achieve an annual COP of x.xx?

As it is they pass the buck to the installing firm and customers take pot luck. Bear in mind that many customers have absolutely no technical knowledge and have no option but to trust an installing firm.

IMO the whole heat pump industry in UK have shot themselves in the foot. Manufacturers have allowed incompetent firms to fit their equipment to unsuitable houses. The figure of only 13% of installed installations classified by the Energy Saving Trust as 'performing well' is a disgrace.

[Deleted User]

Cardew wrote: »

Also for those in the business of installing heat pumps.;)

Wouldn't it be excellent if the heat pump manufacturers gave a guarantee that one of their pumps installed in a house would achieve an annual COP of x.xx?

As it is they pass the buck to the installing firm and customers take pot luck. Bear in mind that many customers have absolutely no technical knowledge and have no option but to trust an installing firm.

IMO the whole heat pump industry in UK have shot themselves in the foot. Manufacturers have allowed incompetent firms to fit their equipment to unsuitable houses. The figure of only 13% of installed installations classified by the Energy Saving Trust as 'performing well' is a disgrace.

Hi Cardew,

Serious question. Perhaps if the above was implemented [not sure if that is the right word] then EST/DECC would have gotton on with RHI and we all be in receipt of our RHI payments by now

Cheers