Bitcoins

dryhat

Ark_Welder wrote: »

Perhaps you could answer the question raised by MrPriclePants about how buying 20 Bitcoins for £500, selling 15 to make a profit of £922, therefore leaving you with 5, could ever produce a 'return' of £3000 as you have claimed.

It was a typo (which I have since corrected)

I meant £2000

Ark_Welder

cepheus wrote: »

I thought that how all stock exchange 'investments' worked, they are worth what someone else is willing to pay. Most companies value are based on potential future revenues which may never materialise and these are usually far in excess of any net asset value. Surely any 'non-certain' investment is respectable gambling.

It seems strange to me that placing a speculative 2k on a company is considered gambling, while placing 200k on a national index isn't. Perhaps it's more of a culture thing, investment is considered more moral than gambling and we like to place a firm dividing line between the two. The risks are different but there is always a finite risk of a large loss. In fact by definition it's only possible to lose more than 2k in the second scenario, yet we rely on our pensions for it.

A company has assets against which it can be valued, even if those assets are intangible. A company should be able to produce goods or services that can be used to generate a revenue stream for shareholders. The further into the future that revenue stream, the greater the gamble. Bitcoin has nothing of substance to it, merely a notion. The fact that its game plan points out that by diminishing over time, its 'rarity' is enhanced, makes it particularly useless for anything other than a gamble. Certainly not for something to facilitate transactions for growing economies.

JohnRo

Ignoring the company assets irrelevance.

Ark_Welder wrote: »

The fact that its game plan points out that by diminishing over time, its 'rarity' is enhanced, makes it particularly useless for anything other than a gamble.

You're actually just talking complete made up nonsense now. The bitcoin monetary base will increase over time until approx. 2040. Why you've chosen to embark on what seems like an ill informed crusade is anyones guess but is odd.

What's to say that in future any lost or stolen coins can not be traced and recovered anyway.

The real problems the bitcoin concept faces are when mining stops and much of the current network infrastructure that secures its decentralisation and makes it incorruptible, loses the incentive to continue doing so. By then the widespread development, adoption and use as a crypto currency system, whether that be bitcoin or something like it, is likely to have displaced that requirement from the current mining network anyway.

I'm still betting on the authorities instigating some sort of attempt to shut it down long before then though, if it keeps on gaining traction. All the speculation and talk of its "value" measured in bankers tickets is just a distraction that has little if anything to do with the concept itself.

If you really want to bash bitcoin itself there are better ways, the decentralised crypto currency concept is fine though and much needed to stop the unsustainable theft being perpetrated by money monopoly barons and complicit governments in rigged markets. Bitcoin might not yet be the perfect solution but it's a damned good first attempt.

Ark_Welder

JohnRo wrote: »

You're actually just talking complete made up nonsense now.

The notion that Bitcoin is the basis for anything other than an online game is the nonsense. The same level of B.S. surrounds it as for Dotcom and more recent share sectors.

Glen_Clark

I'd love to see Bitcoin succeed because I am fed up of being ripped off by the Government's money printing.
But for all I know the people in Bitcoin could be as bad as the Government.
So, reluctantly, I'm Out.

vectistim

JohnRo wrote: »

By then the widespread development, adoption and use as a crypto currency system, whether that be bitcoin or something like it, is likely to have displaced that requirement from the current mining network anyway.

'Or something like it' is potentially a large problem - so far I know of six alternatives, that are essentially the same thing, but with slightly different names, algorithms and numbers of widgets to be issued, and there's nothing to stop anyone starting more and more of these things.

andy.m_2

Bitcoin is for online drug purchase and unethical pornography primarily.

Silk road currency

dryhat

vectistim wrote: »

'Or something like it' is potentially a large problem - so far I know of six alternatives, that are essentially the same thing, but with slightly different names, algorithms and numbers of widgets to be issued, and there's nothing to stop anyone starting more and more of these things.

There are a few alternatives to bitcoin.
And you could even start your own if you want.

There are also alternatives to "amazon" , "ebay" and "facebook"

Why don't you try starting something similar to those?

sabretoothtigger

It's mad that the black market has got it's own global digitisl currency

The black market has operated in places like USSR using its 'own' currency, this is just a repeat

The new part is that this is digital and apparently the utility that is of worth is the speed and accuracy is far better then black markets normally acquire.

So how far can that go. I think we should not presume bitcoin fails but that its use is justified and this means competition is certain. So it may be the pioneer but not the mainstream success many hope for

FED is the main supporter of Bitcoins. By creating negative value to global currency, ie dollars they are subsidising the creation of alternatives

So theres Gold and there is Australian dollars and a new digital form could compete or we could see commodities rise like raw Copper was used in recent years in China but GOV shut this down and its so bulky its easily controlled

diminishing over time, its 'rarity' is enhanced

The are divisible so this is the same argument used against gold as a currency. I disagree because obviously we can use tiny grams to transact.

The bigger point is natural supply and demand does not exist in Bitcoin and that is the problem that would make it fail more then anything else.
Nobody actually needs a Bitcoin, its not a useful product.
So its a product based on waste like Federal reserve dollars, by comparison it may have higher utility (in its freedom from restrictions) but its still a negative product nobody needs.

If I work to mine gold, someone some day will want to pay me for my labour and maybe I wont make a profit but its natural production and demand have always been there.

Because its inert its useful to store as 'wealth', Bitcoins can be destroyed so are a failure in this respect.
Both gold, Bitcoin and national currencies are subject to trends but of the three Bitcoin is the most likely to decline to zero as is its base worth

mkooo

Tried understanding some of this thread, I don't know how I didn't know about this until recently, so has anyone invested in these bitcoins for a profit and/or is anyone considering doing so?

It's still early on in its lifetime so the prices aren't at their highest yet from what I gather.