Bitcoins

csm888

This is really good, it discusses a number of the issues we have been debating in this thread:

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/e61-2-peter-schiff-e-voorhees-on-ed-ethan/#.UpyVdZHbgjE

Unfortunately the 1st half with Peter Schiff is a little disappointing, Peter fails to eloquently put together his arguments.
But these are discussed later by Eric Voorhees (of Satoshi Dice fame) who starts at around 28mins 30secs

Eric talks about what the value in Bitcoin is. Stating that Bitcoin actually refers to 2 things
1) The unit currency itself, which has no real valid, and no backing.
2) It also refers to the protocol which is where the utility lies. The value lies in this utility. The fact that it is a ledger and you can almost instantly and without cost transfer any amount of money to anywhere in the world.

JohnRo

BoracicLint wrote: »

Also worth remembering, currently 25 Bitcoins are released with each successful block, this will reduce to 17 in 2017 (iirc) so the rewards become fewer.

The coin reward is halved every four years so it'll be 12.5 btc per block next drop.

http://bitcoinclock.com/

Satoshi

csm888 wrote: »

This is really good, it discusses a number of the issues we have been debating in this thread:

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/e61-2-peter-schiff-e-voorhees-on-ed-ethan/#.UpyVdZHbgjE

Unfortunately the 1st half with Peter Schiff is a little disappointing, Peter fails to eloquently put together his arguments.
But these are discussed later by Eric Voorhees (of Satoshi Dice fame) who starts at around 28mins 30secs

Eric talks about what the value in Bitcoin is. Stating that Bitcoin actually refers to 2 things
1) The unit currency itself, which has no real valid, and no backing.
2) It also refers to the protocol which is where the utility lies. The value lies in this utility. The fact that it is a ledger and you can almost instantly and without cost transfer any amount of money to anywhere in the world.

I think Peter Schiff wins the argument hands down. He highlights the problems with bitcoin and there is no getting away from them.

sabretoothtigger

BoracicLint wrote: »

But surely as ASICs become more and more powerful, their performance will be offset by the increase in difficulty which is coded into the Bitcoin protocol.

The increase in difficulty might not be automatic. Not sure, but if a majority agree they can modify bitcoin.

Its increased to keep balance, otherwise they'd be throwing coins out the door but they release 1314000 extra per year by their own choice, it could be changed I think.

BTC is a bit (it halved ) weaker for last few days, a major forum got hacked and passwords stolen. Thats not the actual protocol failing though.
I think Schiff is right in saying btc will fail to keep value as well other items of worth but it might be a better currency then dollars which would mean its seen as a success

[Deleted User]

Satoshi wrote: »

I think Peter Schiff wins the argument hands down. He highlights the problems with bitcoin and there is no getting away from them.

He makes valid points about the potential for bitcoins to plummet in value due to lack of confidence and there are many many issues with Bitcoin that will hold it back and threaten the future, issues that need to be overcome, however the arguments that he is making are completely detached from reality.

For example he says that you can't buy anything with Bitcoin, and when he's told that there are places that will accept Bitcoin he shouts about how that's just not true. Yes, it is true, here is a list of just some of the real world places that take bitcoins: coinmap.org, this company down the road from me will sell be a staircase for bitcoins: http://www.stairbox.com/

He doesn't even know what a ponzi scheme is... there are so many challenges that Bitcoin faces and so many things that can cause it to fail, but he's shouting about something that just doesn't matter. He's not thinking critically about Bitcoin, he's defending his own views.

csm888

Satoshi wrote: »

I think Peter Schiff wins the argument hands down. He highlights the problems with bitcoin and there is no getting away from them.

Funny, I thought Peter failed badly. I guess we are looking at it from different perspectives

csm888

@Satoshi: you prayers have been answered

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4903fc9a-591f-11e3-a7cb-00144feabdc0.html?siteedition=uk#axzz2mJyzTLjC

[Deleted User]

For Satoshi:

Here's a thought about inherent value:

Audio CDs were physical items that had an inherent value, because they provided the utility of playing music.

Now we have a virtual replacement in digital audio files, which do not physically exist, but provide the same utility. They also provide additional utilities, free to copy, more portable, which makes them more valuable. Thus, despite their inherent value, CDs are no longer required.

Gold has inherent value as a metal, you can make jewelery out of it because it looks pretty and it's malleable. But it also has inherent value as a store of value or currency, because it has these properties: divisibility, scarcity, easily recognisable, fungible, somewhat portable.

Now bitcoin is a virtual replacement for gold as it has all of these properties that led to gold being used as money, but it provides huge advantages on top of this. Now that we have bitcoin, we have less need (I won't say none) for gold as a store of value/currency.

via http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1rxmk3/my_open_letter_to_peter_schiff_followup_from_the/cdrxvhx

gb12345

Looks like a large number of dodgy Bitcoin owners have lost their "fortune" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2517244/Illegal-online-marketplace-replaced-Silk-Road-VANISHES--taking-100MILLION-users-money-it.html

Jegersmart

citricsquid wrote: »

He's not thinking critically about Bitcoin, he's defending his own views.

This. As I have said many times on here, most people cannot be objective in debates - they always have to relate things back to themselves or their own views.

The concept of BTC and other currencies is the most important thing, not what these currencies may or may not be worth in fiat currency per se.

imho

J