BNP at University of Bath

lady_fuschia

Oppose facism/racism/bigotry in all its forms wherever it rears it's head. Use whatever peaceful means to disrupt it and stop it's spread. The BNP cannot be allowed to use academia as a means of raising support

Unless they're allowed to speak, how can anyone argue against them? How can anyone hold them to account for their views? Stopping a particular viewpoint from being aired stops us from discussing it. It doesn't stop people from holding those views.

tr3mor

icefall wrote: »

There are 19 posts out of 25 so far that put forward the point of view that the BNP should be allowed to preach their philosophy at a university...

I can see which way the wind is blowing so far on this thread...

Anyone should be allowed to speak their mind.

People have different views. No amount of censorship is going to stop people feeling the way that they do. If you try to stop people speaking out then you're only going to cause more trouble.

Who are you to say that one group are "allowed to preach their philosophy" whilst another group aren't.

Quasar is right. Maybe this country needs some real problems, like Europe has suffered in the past. It might give a hint of reality to some peoples' views.

[Deleted User]

I guess I'd just watched the 'most offensive joke in the world' program and has quite a few feelings running through my head. My grandparents observed the Battle of Cable street where the residents of the east end opposed the British union of fascists. As part of the liberation of Europe, in the spring of 1945, my grandfather was a military policeman in the army and as a yiddish speaker he was involved in the liberation of the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp.

I am part of a group of people who's immigration into the United Kingdom was objected to. My ancestors came here to seek refuge. They did not wish to abandon their heritage, nor did they want to erode that of the native population's. As I would do, my relatives fought against fascism both at home and abroad. In my mind, the BNP are abhorrent, after reading their manifesto, the biggest thing that stuck in my mind is their view that 'not all people are equal'. Now, I am very aware of that. Certain defined groups of people (race is a poor word to use) have minor biological differences. They may have different languages and cultures.

However, they are still due the same respect and rights. I really don't think people understand the threat that the BNP represent. The UK already has enough surveillance mechanisms to make the old East Germany look like a party. Should a fascist group gain any foot hold, this nation could disintegrate rather quickly. Sadly, there is inequality across the UK. You have city bankers who spend more on a lunch than a family from an inner city council estate might spend on food in a week. I agree that the nation is not in a great way (but I don't think it's as bad as it is reported), but the BNP appear to be looking outwards for a solution, when we should be looking inwards.

So.. should the BNP have the ability to air their views through a university's facilities? probably, as free speech is the life blood of democracy. Should the people rise up to oppose the BNP's views? - certainly.

</rant>

foreign_correspondent

IMHO -The best thing about the BNP is that they have an unnerring tendancy to be absolute thickos!

Keep them shup up and people might suspect they have something relevant / interesting / insightful to say.... let them speak and Blimey, do they prove that they haven't!! Let them speak, they are their own bad publicity!

I have come into contact with several and they really do themselves no favours - everytime they open their gob they put their foot in it! Let's give the british public a bit of credit for not being idiots - after all the BNP didn't do so well last week as many expected, did they?

On a related note I was in a pub in Leeds when I noticed a loud and particularly obnoxious young chap spouting a load of ill-informed junk on a variety of subjects (all of which he seemed equally ignorant about) - thinking, "God, who is that pratt?... he likes the sound of his own voice!" - looking round it was Mark Collett leader of BNP youth and then student at Leeds university - tying to impress a girl (unsucesfully) - he was like David Brent but less intelligent and with a good dollop of venemous and unfounded hatred stirred in! poor lad, obviously not very bright; for more evidence of this see the Louis Theroux doc he did with them!

margaretclare

BigBouncyBall wrote: »

Ok i need to put everybody straight here.

Nick Griffin WILL NOT BE ATTENDING ANY MEETING AT THE UNIVERSITY OF BATH

The univeristy have reversed its decicion to let him attend a private meeting organised by a 1st year politics student.

Public order issues apparently - university can;t guarentee the saftey of anybody attending the meeting or protests.

Shame really, we were all looking forward to a good protest

I find this whole thread to be quite sad.

Now we know the facts - Mr Griffin was invited to a private meeting at the behest of a first-year politics student.

If I was reading politics in my first year I think I would love to gain the widest possible insight into the views of all politicians, elected and non-elected, leaders/representatives of the big parties and leaders of the small parties. How else would a first-year politics student gain an appreciation of different forms of political thinking?

This was going to be a private meeting. Private, on university premises, which premises are not owned by the NUS and which are paid for by taxpayers' money, mine included.

Probably the said first-year student mentioned it to his colleagues, the word got out, and the whole thing snowballed. Early-day motions in the House of Commons, write to your MP, charter a minibus from all other universities - yes, I can see it happening. Just a thought - isn't this the time of year when most students are busy with end-of-year exams? My daughter, who is reading Classics part-time at Leeds, has taken 2 weeks off work as 'exam leave' and she certainly has no time to attend any protest demo.

It does sound as if the NUS, Seachlight, NuLabour etc are 'telling' students what to think, and this bodes ill for the future opinion-makers and policy-makers of this country.

In response to what Ringo writes. I'm always conscious that my DH as a child of 5 clutching his teddy-bear, together with all his family, would have been swept up and carted off to a terrible and undeserved fate - if we hadn't 'stood alone' in 1940, if 'The Few' hadn't fought the Battle of Britain (and I live less than half a mile from a former Battle of Britain airfield). We never forget that. He'd have been like that iconic picture of the little lad outside the Warsaw Ghetto, name was Tzi or something, saw his picture when I went round the Beth Shalom centre in Nottinghamshire (DH wouldn't come in, he spent the time sitting in the memorial garden). However, it's worth also recalling that one of the sitting BNP councillors in London is Pat Richardson, and she's Jewish.

I am sad that students are being told what they are allowed to think, whose views they can listen to and whose they cannot, for fear of 'rent-a-mob' NUS tactics and people's safety not being guaranteed.

I am sad, because I always thought that I lived in a country which prided itself on free speech. I've lived and worked in a country where there is no such thing as free speech, in fact I was forbidden to have a group of colleagues into my room for an informal carol-singing and Christmas readings evening. I was told I'd be arrested - my own room was not private enough. I know what that felt like. I thought 'Thank God I'm going home - such things can't happen in England'.

Whatever happened to 'I disagree with what you say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it'?

Margaret

Ytaya

Don't we have an obligation to behave better than that which we despise? Muzzling people who have the right to speak certainly isn't 'better behaviour'! Let them speak, then stand up and respond. All out in the open, nothing hidden behind closed doors.

If it's quotations you want, try this one:
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Evelyn Beatrice Hall, 1906.

lady_fuschia

Keep them shup up and people might suspect they have something relevant / interesting / insightful to say.... let them speak and Blimey, do they prove that they haven't!! Let them speak, they are their own bad publicity!

My sentiments exactly!
The problem with pushing things underground by refusing them a platform is that they suddenly become very attractive. The (no doubt well-intentioned) establishment that tries to silence them becomes the enemy.

There's nothing that the people of this country hate more than people who try to stifle their freedoms. One of the most often repeated quotes when people are asked for rules they live by is "I do not agree with what you have to say, but...." It's one of the strongest principles in our society, and one of the few which people with radically opposing political views on other issues tend to agree on.

The BNP could easily become victors by virtue of the "My enemy's enemy is my friend" philosophy.

Bamber19

lellie wrote: »

I can't stand the BNP as an organisation but feel it is unfair to ban them. Especially when extreme left-wing organisations like Swizz (socialist workers students.. ) and respect are encouraged in student unions.

Well they are singing from the same Hymn Sheet

Another point someone made was about the attacks on minorities etc when the BNP come, I think you have to look at the wider picture here in that whilst there are members/supporters of the BNP who cause trouble, minority groups are not vacant of bad elements and it is as likely the case that militant ethnic minority groups go to cause trouble with the supporters of the BNP.

I am not a supporter or member of the BNP, and the party that i most closely relate to shares very few, if any, policies with the BNP, i am however a supporter of free speech and democracy and not ignorant to the fact that there are extremists and trouble makers from every race, religion and political background.

DjSatansfury

dmg24 wrote: »

Even if I don't agree with their opinions myself, I do thing that everyone has a right to free speech.

Students should be allowed to choose what they listen to. If they don't like it, then they should vote with their feet.

I agree with this.

teamvillage

tr3mor wrote: »

I don't understand leftists: they're all for free speech as long as they agree with it.

I don't see the difference between letting George Galloway or Nick Griffin speak. As far as I can tell they're both alarming extremist nutcases, yet most students' unions accept Galloway with open arms.

Exactly... George Galloway made such an idiot of himself at the Oxford Union last term that I can't believe his message was at all furthered by his appearance. Griffin on the other hand, was banned from being interviewed on Student Radio, and ended up being interviewed by one of the student newspapers arguing that it was hard to tell who was the fascist - him or the student union president. If he'd been allowed on the radio, I'd have had every confidence in my fellow students to show him up as the objectionable racist moron that he undoubtedly is.

The public safety argument put forward by Bath is a complete cop-out incidentally, and just as bad (if not worse) than an outright ban. Show some backbone.