No VAT registered...showing VAT in quote, NOT in invoice

Biggles

shegar wrote: »

The OP knows dam well whats going on, hes just trying to wind everyone up, dont bite and he will soon F... off.................With a bit of luck..:)

He F'd off days ago by the look of it, but forgot to switch the lights off on this thread.

Standard quote, standard bill, long ruddy thread. He must be well pleased!

southcoastrgi

dktreesea wrote: »

If I were receiving a quote, I would want it to say the words "including VAT" whatever the status of the supplier, just to safeguard against them registering for VAT prior to carrying out the work, and then lumping the VAT on top of the original quote.

OMG that is exactly what he did do & you are arguing that he did it wrong, make your mind up !!


Are sure you are an accountant because you seem to have trouble reading the simplist of sentances.

ValHaller

dktreesea wrote: »

Yes, if this is not the case, i.e. the first part is true, that the word VAT is not mentioned at all on the invoice, then the tradesman is not at fault. But if, on the invoice, it states "all prices include VAT" then I would think CH91350 applies.

This from the HMRC:
"Mark is the sole proprietor of a garage. He is not registered for VAT because his turnover is below the registration threshold but he includes VAT on the invoices he issues to customers. Because Mark is not registered for VAT he is an unauthorised person. He makes an unauthorised issue of invoices when he issues invoices that include an amount purporting to be VAT. He is liable to a penalty."

There is a subtle difference between 'an amount purporting to be VAT' and stating that the price is inclusive of VAT. In the first case, an invoice could be used to reclaim VAT where this is allowed - although there is no supplier VAT reference.

I think a better statement might be something along the lines 'Under VAT Regulations, VAT is not payable on this amount'

keystone

southcoastrgi wrote: »

OMG that is exactly what he did do & you are arguing that he did it wrong, make your mind up !!

Are sure you are an accountant because you seem to have trouble reading the simplist of sentances.

To be fair SC she was responding to a remark that I had made in an earlier post that was sort off thread creep (my bad) rather than the OPs particular situation.

Cheers

keystone

dktreesea wrote: »

I can appreciate one would want the quote to state "including VAT" regardless of whether the tradesman is registered or not to avoid the situation where VAT might become returnable by the vendor prior to invoicing the job, e.g. if the tradesman registers between quoting and invoicing.

I can't actually see that situation obtaining unless it was really long job. A quotation must have a limited validity to account for price changes. The tradesman is also required by HMRC to register for VAT if he even "thinks" he's going to breech the threshold. So he should have a fair idea where he is in relation to the threshold when quoting anyway. I myself stopped undertaking new jobs about 10 months into my year about 3 years ago. I was getting too close to the then threshold and as I can't be bothered with all the paperwork just did that to ensure that I didn't cross the threshold.

Yes, if this is not the case, i.e. the first part is true, that the word VAT is not mentioned at all on the invoice, then the tradesman is not at fault.

That is indeed what OP says is the case.

But if, on the invoice, it states "all prices include VAT" then I would think CH91350 applies.

OP is quite clear there is no mention of VAT on the invoice - its only on the quote.

Cheers

keystone

dktreesea wrote: »

Can be tricky relying on that, because there is a circumstance where that wouldn't apply.

Tricky from whose perspective?

If someone agrees to a quote, but by the time of supply the tradesman has registered for VAT, e.g. because he has moved over the revenue threshold, the supplier can then change the contracted price to reflect the VAT that was not taken into account when the contract was signed.

Indeed so and I discussed this situation earlier up the thread but then there are three choices. They can agree to amicably cancel the contract at no cost to either party. The contractor can take the hit (as its his responsbility anyway) or the client can agree to pay the extra. Its not black and white.

If I were receiving a quote, I would want it to say the words "including VAT" whatever the status of the supplier, just to safeguard against them registering for VAT prior to carrying out the work, and then lumping the VAT on top of the original quote.

I would consider that sharp practice on behalf of the contractor to do that, complete the work and then drop a little surprise with the invoice without even discussing it and agreeing a way forward.

Cheers

keystone

sunshinetours wrote: »

Sounds like a regular small trader getting confused over what to include with respect to VAT,

Actually I don't agree. I think the contractor knew exactly what he wanted to say but was just a little hamfisted with it. I've formed the conclusion that OP is either a chancer or a troll who has pushed all our buttons and is now laughing like a drain somewhere.

Now pay the trader - its tough out there

+1

Cheers

sunshinetours

keystone wrote: »

Actually I don't agree. I think the contractor knew exactly what he wanted to say but was just a little hamfisted with it. I've formed the conclusion that OP is either a chancer or a troll who has pushed all our buttons and is now laughing like a drain somewhere.

Point is (which we are agreeing I think) is that many small businesses have a very poor understanding of how VAT should be correctly applied and whilst I agree I dont think he has tried to be fraudulent here, he hasn't dealt with it correctly

Non VAT registered traders should simply be silent on VAT and confirm if asked that they are not VAT regeistered

dktreesea

the_r_sole wrote: »

so you only managed to read half the op?

The quote shows (in short):

"[FONT=&quot]For the above work to be completed, including supplying all labour, materials, and a xyz combi boiler - £2100.00" and the quote ends with "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]All quoted prices include VAT.[/FONT] "

I have just received the invoice for the above job and there is no mention of VAT anywhere in the invoice. When contacted, the tradesman wrote me: "I am not a VAT registered company so cannot include the VAT breakdown. I include the phrase 'all prices include VAT' to avoid confusion."

Yes, I see. I thought he had included the phrase all prices include VAt on the invoice and the quote.

dktreesea

southcoastrgi wrote: »

OMG that is exactly what he did do & you are arguing that he did it wrong, make your mind up !!


Are sure you are an accountant because you seem to have trouble reading the simplist of sentances.

It wasn't the quote, it was the invoice I was querying, because I thought the OP was saying that the tradesman said he puts all prices inclusive of VAT on the invoice as well as the quote, but that it wasn't shown as a saparate charge on the invoice. An earlier poster pointed out that the mention of VAT was on the quote only, and not the invoice.