No VAT registered...showing VAT in quote, NOT in invoice

dampdaveski

hi Roblos,
He attended your property to assess your boiler needs, made an assessment then made you an offer to carry out the works for a fixed price.
You accepted that offer and you then entered into a legally binding contract.
He has fulfilled his obligation to you by carrying out the boiler work.
You now have a legal obligation to pay him, there is no grey area here.
He has to be fair put a comment that is open to interrpretation about including VAT. However when questioned he has confirmed the correct situation to you.
If you withhold payment AFTER he has qiven you an acceptable reason for your concerns, then he has every right to take you to the small claims court for the remainder.
Subject to his terms and conditions you might even be liable for paying interest.

The only thing wrong here is that he should have put 'all material prices include vat' etc etc
and that is NOT a justifiable reason in court.
A good outcome for this would be to pay the man what he is due and point out to him that the wording on his quotes ought to be changed to avoid confusion in the future

DD

justjohn

You don't have too pay him anything - that's called ripping him off.
Just the same as deducting 20% is ripping him off.

There are some low people out there.

keystone

roblos71 wrote: »

uhm...nobody is answering right here!

Uhhm... nobody is giving you the answer you want to hear. Sorry about that. Please don't project an attitude - it has the effect of lessening both cooperation and willingness to help.

is any of you an accountant?

Nobody who has answered you needs to be.

I need to know the legal bit...not "your point of view"!

Points of view as expressed above are entirekly in accordance with the legal bit. Noone hasactually given you incorrect information.

As far as I know, someone who is NOT vat registered should NOT mention VAT anywhere in a quote/invoice

Your knowledge level is less than optimal.

Does anyone else but me know about this?

Sorry but you didn't understand it and your assertation is incorrect. I hope that my meagre attempt to explain it to you has broadened your knowledge.

Cheers

justjohn

keystone wrote: »

Sorry but you didn't understand it and your assertation is incorrect. I hope that my meagre attempt to explain it to you has broadened your knowledge.

Cheers

uhmm is that a Posh way of saying the OP is a chancer ??:rotfl:

System

can't believe the attitude of some people, trying to get out of paying agreed fees because of a small technicality with the invoice - i know this is the money saving expert forum but come on!

keystone

justjohn wrote: »

uhmm is that a Posh way of saying the OP is a chancer ??:rotfl:

Nope. Its a way of saying you misunderstand so please don't think that your misunderstanding gives you the opportunity to avoid paying what is due. I was also trying to be polite. Having served my time in the grey funnel line I'm more than capable of using the sort of language which would make my views on this transparently clear but I don't really want to get myself PPRd. I don't think he's being a deliberate chancer. I think he's grasping at the odd straw that just happens to have blown by. It may amount to the same thing at the end of the day.

Cheers

Biggles

By saying "All quoted prices include VAT" he was clarifying for you that you would not be asked to pay VAT on top; without that statement, that would have been the first question you would have asked him, wouldn't it?

In other words, he was making it as clear as possible to help you understand his quote. I don't think you could ask much more.

If you were to deduct the notional £350 VAT, he would have no trouble recovering it from you in court, plus his expenses, of course

justjohn

keystone wrote: »

Nope. Its a way of saying you misunderstand so please don't think that your misunderstanding gives you the opportunity to avoid paying what is due. I was also trying to be polite. Having served my time in the grey funnel line I'm more than capable of using the sort of language which would make my views on this transparently clear but I don't really want to get myself PPRd. I don't think he's being a deliberate chancer. I think he's grasping at the odd straw that just happens to have blown by. It may amount to the same thing at the end of the day.

Cheers

Wonder if his plumber will see it that way and put it so eloquently rofl

keystone

I also seem to have swallowed a dictionary today.:rotfl:

Ho hum. Enough of this banter. Now its time to go off to work and rip people off by not charging the VAT on my labour.

Cheers

roblos71

Hi again,

made some phone calls to get some advice...

I try to explain my point of view in a different way...bear with me

1) I was going to pay him in full (the advice not to pay him 20% was from HMRC yesterday but on the phone, not written)

2) this is not the first job the plumber does for me (always paid in full previously) but so far someone else used to manage my bookkeeping. I realised that in all his quotes he writes that prices are inclusive of VAT. When I compare the quote with someone who is actually paying VAT I think the price is fair, but when I started checking his invoices I found out he was not actually paying any VAT (no mention of VAT in the invoice) thus:

a) he was actually charging me more than his fair share of profits compare to VAT registered tradesmen quoting the same
b) he was making me believe he was paying VAT with the words in his quotes

Now..ok for point a) it's my fault not to check that at first...but for point b) I was wondering if this behaviour is legal

What I expected, in this forum, was someone to introduce himself as an accountant, for instance, and tell me that the quote and invoice are legally ok so there is peace of mind...or no..they are not ok and I would have told the tradesman.

Trading Standards told me that, from their point of view, the way the quote is written makes the customer believe that VAT will be paid and the amount is the same as on the invoice so in theory I have been charged VAT (but they're not VAT expert)

HMRC (VAT helpline) say that, because no word about VAT is on the invoice, they're not bothered.

So I'm back to square one. My question: can anyone suggest where I can have the quote and invoice checked?

In a different forum (similar issue), I found some people agreeing that making people believe that VAT will be paid, for a non VAT registered business, is a criminal offence and it should be reported. The topic was quite old and only business users can post in that forum so unfortunately I cannot ask any reference supporting the issue.

Hopefully my question is clear now...

Thx for help,
Roby