Does this suggest the tide is turning on immigration ?

wotsthat

Sampong wrote: »

But your comments about the "lazy" brits are an offence to generations of hardworking people who now find themselves displaced from the labour market.

Someone that isn't in the labour market isn't hardworking. Doesn't mean they are lazy but they are definitely choosing a life of idleness.

Low skilled and uneducated people compete on price. There are plenty of welfare reforms that could be used but there's a balance between pricing people into work (reducing welfare - work starts to pay) and getting consumers to pay more (restricting labour movements). I don't see why I should subsidise Tesco via WTC to employ the low skilled. I don't want to pay for people coming from countries that are European in name only to live on benefits either. I also want to pay the lowest price possible for goods and services.

I gave an example of the services on the A14. Everyone was young and foreign. I really can't see why a young Brit living at home who could walk to work is being displaced - what are they doing - holding out for a management position?

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

wotsthat wrote: »

Low skilled and uneducated people compete on price.

Actually that is not the case in the majority of low skilled jobs which are mostly at National Minimum Wage.

So price is completely out of the equation.

Low skilled and uneducated people compete on ability, aptitude, and willingness to work hard.

Moby

Sampong wrote: »

Hmm well - no response from anquet to the facts I have shown him.

Another "mythbuster" bites the dust.

Meanwhile the madness continues;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/9847650/Why-are-we-sending-child-benefit-to-Poland.html

Groan!...the Telegraph....more selective internet trolling to back up pre-existing bigotry!

anqet

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/mar/30/eu-cameron-xenophobia-immigration

Sampong

anqet wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/mar/30/eu-cameron-xenophobia-immigration

Hilarious article but any evidence yet on your earlier statement?

anqet wrote: »

And no, immigrants can't claim benefits immediately after they arrive. They can only do it after they worked here for a while

because as it turns out - it's a maximum of three months.

The article you have posted is laughable since it is based around statements made by EU commissioner L!szl! Andor;

"The reality is that migrants from other EU countries are very beneficial to the UK's economy,

Well he would say that wouldn't he.

However our own Select Committee of Economic Affairs don't agree;

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200708/ldselect/ldeconaf/82/82.pdf

we have found no evidence for the argument, made by the Government, business and many others, that net immigration—immigration minus emigration—generates significant economic benefits for the existing UK population.

Sampong

Moby wrote: »

Groan!...the Telegraph....more selective internet trolling to back up pre-existing bigotry!

Not a fan of freedom of speech and democracy are you Moby.

Robin-i'-the-Hood

'I'm not disputing that there are of course a number of British welfare system abusers. Importing labour isn't the answer to this (as you point out to be fair) - reforming the welfare system is.'

Good point, well made.

BobQ

Sampong wrote: »

Whilst I agree with your part about it being a government issue - I think the comment about our low skilled labour being unable or unwilling to work is at best unfair, and at worst - utter nonsense.

Nobody seems to grasp the fact that prior to 2004 low skilled jobs were done in the main by settled British. This "myth" of low skilled British people becoming lazy, unwilling and incapable started at that point when big employers started to realise they could employ cheap migrant labour who were willing to work long hours in poor conditions and live in substandard rented accomodation - often having their rent deducted from their wages by the glorified gangmasters who now like to call themselves "Employment Agencies".

I have to agree that comments about British workers being lazy and unwilling to work are very unfair. Whether this started in 2004 I doubt, since the same things were being said about Commonwealth immigration in the 1960s and 1970s. The situation has got worse in the last 30 years as we have seen the demise of so many heavy industries we have increasingly relied on low wage jobs. The additional nations joining the EU in 2004 have certainly accelerated the demand certain jobs and this has reduced wages too.

Whether leaving the EU is a solution to the problem is another matter. Encouraging immigration at a time of skill shortages does make sense and free movement of labour both inward and outward is generally good for a common market. How you deter inward migration periods you do not need it is difficult. But we should not allow unfair recruitment practices such as only advertising jobs abroad. The issue of paying CB to children in other countries is probably a trivial cost but as a matter of principle I agree we should only do this on a reciprocal basis not just based on UK law.

Sampong

BobQ wrote: »

I have to agree that comments about British workers being lazy and unwilling to work are very unfair.

:eek:

Don't worry i'm OK now, just had a bit of a shock there with you agreeing with me.

BobQ wrote: »

Whether leaving the EU is a solution to the problem is another matter. Encouraging immigration at a time of skill shortages does make sense and free movement of labour both inward and outward is generally good for a common market. How you deter inward migration periods you do not need it is difficult. But we should not allow unfair recruitment practices such as only advertising jobs abroad. The issue of paying CB to children in other countries is probably a trivial cost but as a matter of principle I agree we should only do this on a reciprocal basis not just based on UK law.

The problem is with free movement is that it isn't really having an effect on skills shortages. What is happening is that thousands of unskilled workers are seeing the opportunity to come to the UK and earn three times that which they can earn in their home country. Not to mention gaining access to our overly generous benefits system. The recent figures of only 7% of immigrants claiming whilst they are here are based solely around JSA - which is of course only one of many available benefits.

I would like to point out (once again) that I am not anti-immigration - I am anti uncontrolled immigration and open border policy. This fact is usually ignored by the lost numskulls on here who keep referring to me as a bigot.

You also refer to unfair recruitment practices. Unfortunately these are widespread and part of why low skilled and/or young British people are finding it so difficult to find work. Unfortunately there is no hard evidence or data to support this since nobody has done any in depth investigation into it. But the labour run unions are quite happily out there in Europe recruiting cheap labour - working for big businesses and NOT the members they are supposed to represent.

anqet

Sampong wrote: »

However our own Select Committee of Economic Affairs don't agree;

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200708/ldselect/ldeconaf/82/82.pdf

No evidence?

anqet wrote: »

research - largely ignored by media and the political discourse - has shown that Eastern Europeans are more likely to be in employment than British and other types of immigrants, and are significantly less likely to ask for benefits.

http://www.voxeu.org/article/fiscal-effects-a8-migration-uk
http://www.esrc.ac.uk/my-esrc/grants/RES-173-27-0208/outputs/read/168e9670-4f8d-45ad-a5cf-438b26ca39cf

UK has a problem with its welfare system and that needs to be solved - long-term reliance on benefits and social housing needs to be reduced and complacent people have to be forced to go back to work after a certain period of time.

Scapegoating Polish, Romanian, Bulgarian or Roma people won't fix UK's broken social system.