Does this suggest the tide is turning on immigration ?

Sampong

tesuhoha wrote: »

After watching Breadline Britain tonight and in particular the sad plight of Mark, a young man living in desperate poverty and unable to find work, I think its time we looked after our own people. Apparently 30 million people, half the population of this country, are now living in some degree of poverty.

There are not enough jobs for the people who are already here. It makes me wonder what sort of state the country will end up in when all these new immigrants flood in. We are becoming a third world country.

Correct....

Sampong

anqet wrote: »

And no, immigrants can't claim benefits immediately after they arrive. They can only do it after they worked here for a while*.

anqet wrote: »

Thanks but there is no mention of 3 months, perhaps you're kind to post the paragraph.

The key point in all this is the Habitual Residency test which you can read about in this briefing paper;

House of Commons Library Note, SN/SP/416 https://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN00416.pdf

EEA nationals who have worked in an EEA state may also, depending on their circumstances, be accepted as habitually resident immediately on arrival. For others, a period of actual residence is likely to be required, but this may be relatively short. There is not set minimum period for establishing habitual residence; it could even be a matter of weeks. In a Social Security Commissioner’s decision in February 2004, it was suggested that, in general, a period of one to three months is likely to be appropriate to demonstrate that a person’s residence is habitual, and that cogent reasons should be given for requiring a person to serve a longer period of residence.7 Ultimately however it will depend on the individual circumstances in each case.

So once again - where is your evidence that EU migrants must wait "some time" before claiming benefits, and how long are you claiming this period of "some time" is?

Sampong

anqet wrote: »

And no, immigrants can't claim benefits immediately after they arrive. They can only do it after they worked here for a while*.

anqet wrote: »

Thanks but there is no mention of 3 months, perhaps you're kind to post the paragraph.

Also - you should read this;

http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN05972

1.3
Self-employed persons

Self-employed people, and their family members, have a right to reside and are exempt from the main Habitual Residence Test. There are no additional rules which self-employed A8 or A2 nationals need to satisfy; they have the same rights of residence as self-employed people from all other EEA states.

As with workers, a person needs to be doing ‘genuine and effective work’, but a person can be accepted as self-employed straight away if they are in the process of establishing themselves in self employment.

Exclusion from the habitual residency test means you can claim immediately.

Being "in the process" of establishing themselves in self employment - well I am sure you can figure out for yourself that it would be a simple matter to claim this is what you are doing to the staff at the Job Centre. Remember - they have quite a queue to get through and are unlikely to want the hassle of delaying your application.

So in summary;

anqet wrote: »

That is simply not true. Link?

Yes it is. Links provided.

anqet wrote: »

And no, immigrants can't claim benefits immediately after they arrive.

Yes they can, if they claim to be in the process of becoming self employed.

anqet wrote: »

They can only do it after they worked here for a while

Three months max as I said before.

Moby

Sampong wrote: »

Also - you should read this;

http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN05972



Exclusion from the habitual residency test means you can claim immediately.

Being "in the process" of establishing themselves in self employment - well I am sure you can figure out for yourself that it would be a simple matter to claim this is what you are doing to the staff at the Job Centre. Remember - they have quite a queue to get through and are unlikely to want the hassle of delaying your application.

So in summary;



Yes it is. Links provided.



Yes they can, if they claim to be in the process of becoming self employed.



Three months max as I said before.

The usual xenophobic nonsense from Sampong!

Sampong

Moby wrote: »

The usual xenophobic nonsense from Sampong!

Well it's from Parliament actually.

But by all means carry on exposing yourself for the bigoted undemocratic fascist you are.

I have merely posted factual information - it doesn't suit your liberal agenda so you start throwing the xenophobe card around again.

Moby

Sampong wrote: »

Well it's from Parliament actually.

But by all means carry on exposing yourself for the bigoted undemocratic fascist you are.

I have merely posted factual information - it doesn't suit your liberal agenda so you start throwing the xenophobe card around again.

You mean you have selectively quoted references to back up your bigotry. I haven't seen you quote any of the recent media discussion indicating that immigrants actually claim very little welfare when they are in the UK? Doen't fit in with the world view Sampong?

wotsthat

tesuhoha wrote: »

After watching Breadline Britain tonight and in particular the sad plight of Mark, a young man living in desperate poverty and unable to find work, I think its time we looked after our own people. Apparently 30 million people, half the population of this country, are now living in some degree of poverty.

There are not enough jobs for the people who are already here. It makes me wonder what sort of state the country will end up in when all these new immigrants flood in. We are becoming a third world country.

We do look after our own people. So that our own low skilled unemployed can maintain a life of idleness we import labour to do the jobs they can't or won't do.

Government(s) find it easier to import labour than persuade our own low skilled unemployed to work. That's the crux. Maybe they'll get it one day.

In the meantime I'll keep paying to keep our 'home grown' idle in a state of idleness and wonder why I'm paying for my doctor's surgery to employ full-time Slovak and Czech interpreters.

Sampong

wotsthat wrote: »

We do look after our own people. So that our own low skilled unemployed can maintain a life of idleness we import labour to do the jobs they can't or won't do.

Government(s) find it easier to import labour than persuade our own low skilled unemployed to work. That's the crux. Maybe they'll get it one day.

In the meantime I'll keep paying to keep our 'home grown' idle in a state of idleness and wonder why I'm paying for my doctor's surgery to employ full-time Slovak and Czech interpreters.

Whilst I agree with your part about it being a government issue - I think the comment about our low skilled labour being unable or unwilling to work is at best unfair, and at worst - utter nonsense.

Nobody seems to grasp the fact that prior to 2004 low skilled jobs were done in the main by settled British. This "myth" of low skilled British people becoming lazy, unwilling and incapable started at that point when big employers started to realise they could employ cheap migrant labour who were willing to work long hours in poor conditions and live in substandard rented accomodation - often having their rent deducted from their wages by the glorified gangmasters who now like to call themselves "Employment Agencies".

Land workers, factory workers, and the like are finding it difficult to compete or even be considered for menial positions;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1257784/Biggest-Asda-meat-supplier-excludes-English-speakers-instructions-given-Polish.html#ixzz2OfDO8VYr

and some MP's are starting to realise this;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9960761/MPs-want-immigrant-ban-to-save-British-jobs.html

Ask any tradesman who works in the construction industry and he/she will tell you they are now competing with Eastern Europeans who will work for peanuts - yet these facts - conveniently are left out of any research so as not to upset big business.

I'm not disputing that there are of course a number of British welfare system abusers. Importing labour isn't the answer to this (as you point out to be fair) - reforming the welfare system is.

But your comments about the "lazy" brits are an offence to generations of hardworking people who now find themselves displaced from the labour market.

Sampong

Moby wrote: »

You mean you have selectively quoted references to back up your bigotry. I haven't seen you quote any of the recent media discussion indicating that immigrants actually claim very little welfare when they are in the UK? Doen't fit in with the world view Sampong?

Whatever - Moby.

I think the percentage of migrants claiming benefits has been done to death in another thread. The key point is that it is no surprise that the percentage is quite low especially since thousands of British workers have been displaced by Eastern Europeans.

Not that the figures can be taken as accurate - anyway. I doubt, for example that anybody has crunched any figures for the thousands claimed in child benefit for children that aren't even living in the UK.

Sampong

anqet wrote: »

That is simply not true. Link?

Hmm well - no response from anquet to the facts I have shown him.

Another "mythbuster" bites the dust.

Meanwhile the madness continues;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/9847650/Why-are-we-sending-child-benefit-to-Poland.html