'A generation of Muslims not able to go to university?' blog discussion

anon_ymous

jamesd wrote: »

Yes, because the claim is very unlikely to be true. You might be referring to the former religious school at al-Karaouine but there are a lot of flaws in the claim, most notably that it didn't become a university until 1965. A huge amount of history in institutions around there, going back to the founding of the mosque and its associated religious school by the Muslim woman Fatima al-Fihri in 859.

In the generally western part of the world the best claim seems to be the University of Bologna. Or older if we include religious schools like al-Karaouine.

But China clearly beats those claims, going back to no later than 605 with the introduction of the imperial examination and most likely much earlier than that.

Oh ok fair enough BUT it was more of a rebuttal to "women can't get educated" when women were quite clearly educated throughout the Islamic Golden age

jamesd wrote: »

Betting on life and death? Interesting. Useful, though.

Well I guess it's more like insurance. I mean we're all going to die one day, so as far as a bet goes, you're pretty much guaranteed to pass away one day

jamesd

I agree. In current Islamic culture it's far from the universal view that a woman must not be educated. But they are more likely to suffer from unavailability of finance than men, I think.

Figgerty

waqasahmed wrote: »

The taliban are hardly representatives of Muslims worldwide.

if any thing, in the Islamic golden age, there were far more women educated than there are now, had rights for women, minorities etc...

Now it is the opposite, and I think that people in power have found scapegoats and don't want people to argue back (ie: women), and have curbed those rights.



The only Muslim country that doesn't allow churches or for people to practise their faith is Saudi Arabia, and SA are to the Muslim world, what the USA are to Europe

Why was that young girl shot in Pakistan recently for her belief in education for women. This should not happen in an enlightened society.

Who allows the Taliban to flourish?

In Saudi Arabia which Islamic law forbids Churches and why are they allowed in other Islamic countries. Although they are bombed in Nigeria so must not be accepted by the local non christians.

Which Islamic law forbids ordinary women to drive in Saudia Arabia but permits a royal princess to drive her royal prince. This same prince thinks it is acceptable for his women staff and his fourth wife to wear western dress (don't know what the other three wear) whilst most other women in the counry all wear a headscarf. I think this prince recently questioned his low place in the worlds richest list. He also invests in all the top corporations, including News Corp, Citibank, eBay and many more including Jessops. I suppose the last one was an asset stripping venture. Does sharia law lay down rules about invstments?

I-W

Who is forcing you to eat halal meat? Every supermarket in this country I've been to has far more none halal meat than halal meat. And the majority of restaurants serve only none halal meat.

No one is forcing anything on you, they just want the freedom to partice their own beliefs.

spacey2012

I-W wrote: »

Who is forcing you to eat halal meat?

Those who dont label it as such.
Next Question.

I-W

spacey2012 wrote: »

Those who dont label it as such.
Next Question.

Muslims will always label their food as halal otherwise they won't know they can eat it.

Your confusing it with the horse meat, that's the meat that gets wrongly labelled.

anon_ymous

(Text removed by MSE Forum Team)

Didn't you know? You become a Muslim by eating halal meat. Do you have any thing against kosher meat by any chance?

No one is forcing you to eat any thing. My values are in line with a lot of English people I know. I criticise the hell out of the UK, and I criticise the hell out of Pakistan. You seem to lump Muslims in to one group, when there are millions of Muslims, and you get the downright extremely liberal to the downright extremely fascist Muslims - just like any where else in the world.

Banning is not the same as allowing another form of meat. We are not an Islamic country are we? We are a democracy, and we are a capitalist state

Oh sorry for being born here. Sorry for my friend's grand father fighting FOR the British. Sorry for my friend's grandfather participating being part of the Indian army, which formed the largest volunteer army in the history of the world, sorry for letting Noor Inayat's Khan family fight FOR the British in WW2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JRYeo3kQ4E

Sorry for being a future 40p tax rate payer. Sorry for being socially left leaning and economically right wing. These are values that I don't share with you and I'm glad I don't. These are values that I share with lots of White British people

I did have a shop on eBay. I gave that up for uni. I work as an IT trainer on Mondays, volunteer on Saturdays at British Heart Foundation and the rest of the time I'm at uni

Now tell me what you do

Figgerty wrote: »

Why was that young girl shot in Pakistan recently for her belief in education for women. This should not happen in an enlightened society.

Ah, you read that bit, but then didn't read the reaction from ordinary Pakistanis? Ordinary Pakistanis for the most part are FOR her education and for education of women.

It's been 70 years since it was made, and almost came close to getting it's first woman as president about 1-2 years ago (before she was shot)

Figgerty wrote: »

Who allows the Taliban to flourish?

The Taliban aren't exactly supported by ordinary Pakistanis. Why would they? The Taliban are killing them.

I don't condone the Taliban, but I can see why people resort to terrorism when they see their family, friends, their whole live shattered to pieces by drone attacks (and they were results of "collateral damage" ), so you have more attacks

Professor Robert Pape explains:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tEsWRXV_BM

At the same time, don't you think it's a coincidence that before the US attacks (ie: Iraq,Pakistan), there are zero suicide bombers, but once they interfere, the number doubles each year?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyUzHt7HSRI

Figgerty wrote: »

In Saudi Arabia which Islamic law forbids Churches and why are they allowed in other Islamic countries. Although they are bombed in Nigeria so must not be accepted by the local non christians

Saudi Arabia is the only Muslim country to not allow churches and the issue with Nigeria is not just Muslims bombing Christians, but there are atrocities on both sides.

Figgerty wrote: »

Which Islamic law forbids ordinary women to drive in Saudia Arabia but permits a royal princess to drive her royal prince. This same prince thinks it is acceptable for his women staff and his fourth wife to wear western dress (don't know what the other three wear) whilst most other women in the counry all wear a headscarf.

Lol at you using SA as an example. SA is a deeply hypocritical country, and no where does it say women can't drive in Islam. This is the only country that doesn't allow women to drive

And Muslims know how hypocritical SA is. SA is to Muslims what the USA is to Europeans. You can't do much about it, apart from rant about them on the internet and just talk about how hypocritical they really are

Figgerty wrote: »

I think this prince recently questioned his low place in the worlds richest list. He also invests in all the top corporations, including News Corp, Citibank, eBay and many more including Jessops. I suppose the last one was an asset stripping venture. Does sharia law lay down rules about invstments?

Well, realistically he shouldn't have investments in Citi Bank, because it deals in interest - and this is the ONLY relevance that your post has to the thread

sharnad

jamesd wrote: »

I agree. In current Islamic culture it's far from the universal view that a woman must not be educated. But they are more likely to suffer from unavailability of finance than men, I think.

I suppose that depends on where in the world you live. There are more Muslim female university students than men in the uk but a lot less in other countries

seven-day-weekend

I-W wrote: »

Who is forcing you to eat halal meat? Every supermarket in this country I've been to has far more none halal meat than halal meat. And the majority of restaurants serve only none halal meat.

No one is forcing anything on you, they just want the freedom to partice their own beliefs.

Most of the meat in UK supermarkets is halal (apart from pork) because apparently those slaughterhouses that prepare meat in this way are cheaper. It is not labelled as such. The only exception is Morrisons, who guarantee that all their fresh meat is non-halal (unless it is clearly labelled as such). Even they can't speak for frozen NZ lamb and meat products though.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1315278/Top-supermarkets-secretly-sell-halal-Sainsburys-Tesco-Waitrose-M-S-dont-tell-meat-ritually-slaughtered.html

http://www.morrisons.co.uk/Help-and-information/Useful-information/More-about-our-company-and-policies/

mumps

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Most of the meat in UK supermarkets is halal (apart from pork) because apparently those slaughterhouses that prepare meat in this way are cheaper. It is not labelled as such. The only exception is Morrisons, who guarantee that all their fresh meat is non-halal (unless it is clearly labelled as such). Even they can't speak for frozen NZ lamb and meat products though.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1315278/Top-supermarkets-secretly-sell-halal-Sainsburys-Tesco-Waitrose-M-S-dont-tell-meat-ritually-slaughtered.html

http://www.morrisons.co.uk/Help-and-information/Useful-information/More-about-our-company-and-policies/

For some reason the mail article keeps closing on me so I can't see all the details. I wondered if it is "most supermarkets sell halal meat" or "most meat in supermarkets is halal."

I am surprised about the halal meat being cheaper as local education authority is trying to stop non Muslim choosing halal options as they say they are more expensive. I have been told this by an outraged friend whose kids wanted the curry option so don't know if I can find a link but I will have a look.

I have eaten plenty of halal meat knowingly, with Muslim friends or when visiting Muslim countries, so I don't have a big issue with it.

This is a discussion about it but I can't find anything else at the moment, have to go to Mothers Day get together. http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-903983.html