'A generation of Muslims not able to go to university?' blog discussion

Figgerty

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

AFAIK, they borrow all the amount upfront. So what would be the interest paid in the usual manner is all added on at the beginning and they borrow the full amount and then pay it back interest free, from Islam-friendly lenders.

So if (to keep figures simple), your £100k house would cost £200k over the 25-year term with interest payments, they borrow the £200k at the start instead of the £100k and pay that back without interest.

It's not borrowing money that is the problem, it is borrowing and paying back with interest.

If I have not understood the procedure correctly, then I apologise.

Whichever way you borrow you are still paying 'the moneylender' a great wodge of money for enabling you to purchase your house. Seems like splitting hairs to me. Where are the moneylenders getting their money from. I bet they use the very same money markets as the non Sharia lenders and pay the same dismal 'interest' rates to their savers. If not, where does the money come from?

seven-day-weekend

Figgerty wrote: »

Whichever way you borrow you are still paying 'the moneylender' a great wodge of money for enabling you to purchase your house. Seems like splitting hairs to me. Where are the moneylenders getting their money from. I bet they use the very same money markets as the non Sharia lenders and pay the same dismal 'interest' rates to their savers. If not, where does the money come from?

I've no idea, I only posted what I read somewhere. I think it is splitting hairs too.

anon_ymous

Nada666 wrote: »

Only half of a generation of Muslims are affected by this - the other half have always been banned from education.

Oh so I guess this is a jibe at saying "Women can't have education" Need I remind you that the first degree awarding university was founded by a Muslim woman?

A lot of people don't particularly like the interest, but you can over-rule any laws for necessity ie: a house is a necessity, so before Islamic mortgages were available, it'd be permissible to pay interest on mortgages.

I suppose you could argue that uni isn't a necessity, but it's more for the greater good.

I for one, would probably put money aside for any of my future kids, to get them through uni

anon_ymous

bylromarha wrote: »

I'd agree. I started a thread a few months back saying how shocked I was at the anti islamic comments I was getting from the parents of the children I teach in primary school, and DT told me I was out of order for expecting parents to be happy to allow their kids to learn about Islam.

If the government are unwilling to set up a suitable loan system for these students, I hope the Muslim community pulls together on this one and sets up some sort of Islamic credit union for its students who choose to follow Sharia law.

On a slightly more hysterical point, we do have a "death committee" ie: you pay in a certain amount each year, and if you die, the committee pays for your funeral.

A bit odd, but I reckon a committee could be made for uni loan purposes

Nada666

Mozette wrote: »

because I would really love to know how it is possible for an ordinary (assume you're not from a very wealthy family) person to do that.

Even today a vast majority of working couples could easily buy a two or three bedroom flat for cash before they are thirty. Five to ten years saving - you choose whether a deposit or entire house as your target.

anon_ymous

Figgerty wrote: »

If the students adhere strictly to Sharia law then I suppose only the men have this problem as we are told by the Taliban that it is unlawful for girls to be educated. This law is from the 8th? century where student loans or interest on loans or credit cards did not apply. I say they should take out the loan on terms applicable to all students instead of trying to find ways around this interest business and still paying 'a fee' instead of 'interest'. If you find that unacceptable then attend a University in a country where sharia law is the law of the land.

I have only recently found out that christians are forbidden from collecting together to practice their religion in some Muslim countries. No churches are allowed and those who want to practice their religion have to do so in private. Contrast that with all the allowances we make in the UK for other religions. I say let them fit in with our laws.

The taliban are hardly representatives of Muslims worldwide.

if any thing, in the Islamic golden age, there were far more women educated than there are now, had rights for women, minorities etc...

Now it is the opposite, and I think that people in power have found scapegoats and don't want people to argue back (ie: women), and have curbed those rights.

The only Muslim country that doesn't allow churches or for people to practise their faith is Saudi Arabia, and SA are to the Muslim world, what the USA are to Europe

anon_ymous

ian_duncan_smith wrote: »

If only you hadn't enslaved black muslims and exploited their labour to build your country. If only you hadn't spent the best part of 250 years subjugating and sytematically stripping the third world of it's natural resources. If you hadn't done these things no one would have heard of Great Britain, and there would no immigration from there to here.

The Asian Muslims here today from the Indian sub-continant, and the countless Carribeans (or their parents and grandparents) were lured here after the second world war by a bankrupt Britain with chronic labour shortages. They helped put this country back on it's feet, and in return were promised a better future, and an equal stake for their future generations in the society they helped build. For you to now pass laws engineered to exclude and marginalise them from the entitlement that their forefathers have earned for them is a calous betrayal of the trust they placed in you. They worked hard and paid taxes that built the universities and hospitals that are the envy of the world.

One more thing, Asian's and other second/third/fourth generation immigrants still work hard and pay their taxes, even in the face of blatent and open discrimination. If this was not the case then I can pretty much guarantee that the Daily Mail stories about benefit cheats and people "exploiting" the system would be focused on Asians and Blacks, especially Muslims. The fact that these groups feature very rarely in these stories is in itself an unspoken comment on the general law abiding and hard working nature of these people. Of course you will find some bad apples in all communities the fact that you have to bring the entire international spectrum of Muslims from across the globe into frame before you can find enough to fuel any negative views you want to propagate about them is yet another testiment to how hard you find it to jutify your own negative view when go looking for evidence to back it up.

Thank you for this. Even in our education, we focus on Europe in WW2, and forget about their empires ie: the Algerian and the Indian effort

I mean I absolutely love this woman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA_abOR57xg

One of the top generals said that we would not have won without the Indian army (World's largest volunteer force)

The person you quoted mentioning not letting Muslims near chemicals etc... I mean I loved messing up all the chemistry experiments, but realistically there's not a person alive who's not had fun in chemistry

Yes, I think he's talking more about the people who want to use chemical attacks against us etc... but why should I be disallowed the use of chemicals because of a minority of people? That would be prejudice.

I mean if you want to get in to the nitty and gritty, that would mean I wouldn't be able to buy pretty much any thing that's not natural ie: crisps, chocolates, shampoos, clothes etc...

I consider myself British. I criticise the hell out of the UK, but I do so for most other countries as well. This country has housed me, gave me free education, gave me "cheap" education, allows me to say what I want (within reason) without being shot. Not every country offers this.

My taxes will go to the UK as well, and I think I'd be looking at paying the 40p rate, within maybe about 5 years of the job

anon_ymous

What's halal neat? And why is it "offensive to our ideals" when over 90% of halal meat is stunned?
https://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Satellite?blobcol=urlblob&blobheader=application/pdf&blobkey=id&blobtable=RSPCABlob&blobwhere=1109267162636&ssbinary=true

If any thing, afaik under Islam, compassion is dictated to animals, to the point that you can't just kill for fun, but you have to kill for food, you can't mistreat animals etc...

What *is* "their food" Here you're confusing Muslims with Asians. There are English Muslims and they'll eat English food.

I myself eat a mixture of world foods. My breakfast is Scottish and Japanese, my lunch is English or Italian, my dinner is English or Asian

And I think you need to learn what "ethnic cleansing" actually means.

(Text removed by MSE Forum Team)

Figgerty

waqasahmed wrote: »

On a slightly more hysterical point, we do have a "death committee" ie: you pay in a certain amount each year, and if you die, the committee pays for your funeral.

A bit odd, but I reckon a committee could be made for uni loan purposes

This must be the equivilent of 'The Over 50's Plan' endorsed by many older ex celebrities.

jamesd

waqasahmed wrote: »

Need I remind you that the first degree awarding university was founded by a Muslim woman?

Yes, because the claim is very unlikely to be true. You might be referring to the former religious school at al-Karaouine but there are a lot of flaws in the claim, most notably that it didn't become a university until 1965. A huge amount of history in institutions around there, going back to the founding of the mosque and its associated religious school by the Muslim woman Fatima al-Fihri in 859.

In the generally western part of the world the best claim seems to be the University of Bologna. Or older if we include religious schools like al-Karaouine.

But China clearly beats those claims, going back to no later than 605 with the introduction of the imperial examination and most likely much earlier than that.

waqasahmed wrote: »

On a slightly more hysterical point, we do have a "death committee" ie: you pay in a certain amount each year, and if you die, the committee pays for your funeral.

Betting on life and death? Interesting. Useful, though.