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'A generation of Muslims not able to go to university?' blog discussion
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seven-day-weekend wrote: »Quite true.
There is no-one left who speaks for me because they are all so busy speaking for the others. I have been sidelined because I am English and Christian.
(I support various charities that DO speak for others.)
So why isn't the Church of England speaking and acting for you? Up to twenty six archbishops in the House of Lords plus some of the other primarily caucasian British Lords would identify as Christian, plenty of other religious leaders who have the ear of the press. I would suggest practising Christians (7% of the population) are at least fairly if not disproportionately represented in the Lords.
I feel disenfranchised because I am a child free singleton, I feel disenfranchised because I have diagnosed disorders of mental health (did you see how [STRIKE]many[/STRIKE] few politicians bothered to show for the 2012 commons debate?). You can divide by community in numerous different ways.Declutterbug-in-progress.⭐️⭐️⭐️ ⭐️⭐️0 -
Your dates seem a tad arbitrary! How are you distinguishing your "native white people" from us pasty immigrants who rocked up a couple of hundred years later?
"The Anglo-Saxons were the population in Britain partly descended from the Germanic tribes who migrated from continental Europe ....
I bow to your far superior knowledge to mine on this topic. Even so, there clearly is a native people to the land similar to what you have in, say, the US and Canada, Even if most of us would be hard pressed to find our ancestors graves from 15,000 years ago.
What I really liked about what you posted is that originally we came from South Western France. I wonder if the French have contemplated the thought that we Brits, overrun by the latest group of marauding (our welfare system) hordes, might want them to set up a few reservations for us over there. I'm sure I could be trusted to go on a tour of SW France to pick out some suitable sites.
They dare because they are elected and appointed to make such decisions in the interests of peace and harmony. You want the Oldham riots or Bradford riots again? BNP, EDL and thus both the union flag and St George's Cross were heavily involved in stoking that up, and have been playing on the more recent London riots.
Your native Brits/ English allowed the flags to be hijacked, don't whinge at the politicians and peacekeepers get mad at those who corrupted its meaning.
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I did not speak out;
As I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I did not speak out;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
As I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
As I was not a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
Maybe the authorities should have cracked down on the Oldham rioters a lot more than they did. There were racist thugs on both sides of that riot. What about the old guy who was attacked for walking along a street the locals had decided wasn't open to non muslim people?
Yes, we have allowed our flag to be hijacked, and it's about time we started taking it back. Flying the St George's Cross on all the town halls and council offices in England would be a good start. Local authorities should be leading this, not moving against it. We should be able to rely on our local authorities to lead the way and do more to promote being English.
At least the Scots are led by a man proud of his country and his flag. Alex Salmond certainly isn't shy about being seen together with the Scottish Saltire. Put it this way, I didn't see any reports of rioting in either Wales or Scotland during the recent London/English riots. Nor was there any in cities in England with a strong sense of identity, clear to see in their gorgeous city centres (Newcastle comes to mind).
If this is good enough for the Scottish Saltire, why not the St George's Cross? After all, it is London Bridge:
"Alasdair MacPherson sent in this picture and commented: Bannockburn SNP bought a 75 by 37 foot saltire, reckoned to be the biggest saltire in the world, and we draped it over London Bridge. The London Bridge flag image was taken by Bruce Ogilvie of www.siol-nan-gaidheal.com"0 -
What about a four leaf shamrock on St Patrick's Day. I have never seen a four leaf shamrock, I suppose they do exist like a four leaf clover but the whole point of it on St Patrick's Day is the explanation of the Blessed Trinity (I know this isn't historical fact) so if we are worrying about St George and his flag can we also spare a thought for St Patirck.
On behalf of my Ulster relatives can I also mention the use of the Irish flag, is this not excluding all Ulstermen from the St Patrick's Day celebration.
MSE you have insulted us and all by trying to add a bit of Oirishness, yes I call the hat that ML is wearing Oirish as it surely isn't Irish.
The British government's recent pronouncement that the official flag for Northern Ireland is the union jack is the ego of the occupying forces gone mad, imho.
It's about time the Northern Irish owned their flag and their identity. No wonder people fly the flag of another nation, the Irish flag, when the union flag is flown.0 -
Maybe the authorities should have cracked down on the Oldham rioters a lot more than they did. There were racist thugs on both sides of that riot. What about the old guy who was attacked for walking along a street the locals had decided wasn't open to non muslim people?
Yes, we have allowed our flag to be hijacked, and it's about time we started taking it back. Flying the St George's Cross on all the town halls and council offices in England would be a good start. Local authorities should be leading this, not moving against it. We should be able to rely on our local authorities to lead the way and do more to promote being English.
At least the Scots are led by a man proud of his country and his flag. Alex Salmond certainly isn't shy about being seen together with the Scottish Saltire. Put it this way, I didn't see any reports of rioting in either Wales or Scotland during the recent London/English riots. Nor was there any in cities in England with a strong sense of identity, clear to see in their gorgeous city centres (Newcastle comes to mind).
You really don't get it? Riots don't start with rioters they brew for weeks months or years, cracking down on them is akin to locking the stable door after the horse has bolted. The union flag and St George's Cross are intimately connected with these terrible events, and you want to string them up over buildings that are supposed to house democratically elected representatives of ALL British people? You don't think that's a bit 'bull in a china shop' and could increase feelings of disenfranchisement?
I don't want city hall flying the same flag that is all over the English Democrats website nor the one that is all over the BNP website, I don't identify with it, I don't associate it with anything positive about being English save sports. I highly doubt the vast majority of my electoral ward feels any different, given the ethnic mix.
IMO the first thing you need to do is stop racist political organisations using the flags, they can NEVER be associated with inclusive national pride and exclusive prejudice simultaneously, that is ludicrous. Then let the Church of England take up the baton, they are peaceful, non political and the St George's Cross is part of their flags.
Again other nation's flags have not been hijacked to the same extent, other nations have political parties (SNP, Plaid Cymru) who have clear inclusive policies including welcoming economic migrants. We have UKIP, BNP and English Democrats whose policies make many embarrassed to be English. However I'd seriously consider voting for a party that is positively patriotic a la SNP or Plaid Cymru.
The riots didn't spread to Bradford last summer which surprised many. I believe this is related to the events of 2010
"But the anniversary of the riots isn't the best indicator of how far the city has come when dealing with race relations. That date came on 28 August 2010 when the English Defence League (EDL) brought 700 supporters to the city. The event had been talked about for months and when the static protest started the group faced opposition from a wide range of residents. It was a display of unity which largely went unreported, the focus instead being on the EDL's clashes with the police. It was the toughest test Bradford's communities had faced since 2001 and people from all over the city made sure no one group was left to stand up to the far right alone."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/07/bradford-riots-race-relationsDeclutterbug-in-progress.⭐️⭐️⭐️ ⭐️⭐️0 -
You really don't get it? Riots don't start with rioters they brew for weeks months or years, cracking down on them is akin to locking the stable door after the horse has bolted. The union flag and St George's Cross are intimately connected with these terrible events, and you want to string them up over buildings that are supposed to house democratically elected representatives of ALL British people? You don't think that's a bit 'bull in a china shop' and could increase feelings of disenfranchisement?
I don't want city hall flying the same flag that is all over the English Democrats website nor the one that is all over the BNP website, I don't identify with it, I don't associate it with anything positive about being English save sports. I highly doubt the vast majority of my electoral ward feels any different, given the ethnic mix.
IMO the first thing you need to do is stop racist political organisations using the flags, they can NEVER be associated with inclusive national pride and exclusive prejudice simultaneously, that is ludicrous. Then let the Church of England take up the baton, they are peaceful, non political and the St George's Cross is part of their flags.
Again other nation's flags have not been hijacked to the same extent, other nations have political parties (SNP, Plaid Cymru) who have clear inclusive policies including welcoming economic migrants. We have UKIP, BNP and English Democrats whose policies make many embarrassed to be English. However I'd seriously consider voting for a party that is positively patriotic a la SNP or Plaid Cymru.
The riots didn't spread to Bradford last summer which surprised many. I believe this is related to the events of 2010
"But the anniversary of the riots isn't the best indicator of how far the city has come when dealing with race relations. That date came on 28 August 2010 when the English Defence League (EDL) brought 700 supporters to the city. The event had been talked about for months and when the static protest started the group faced opposition from a wide range of residents. It was a display of unity which largely went unreported, the focus instead being on the EDL's clashes with the police. It was the toughest test Bradford's communities had faced since 2001 and people from all over the city made sure no one group was left to stand up to the far right alone."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/07/bradford-riots-race-relations
Just because political parties are labelled racist doesn't mean they are. The English Democrats in particular don't mention race anywhere in their literature. "England for the English" presumably includes the English, whatever their race or religion.
The BNP are a different kettle of fish, because they do have policies based on race as opposed to being English. I would like to see it being an offence to use the national flag in any way that promotes racism.
Not sure about relying on the church to support the national flag; they possibly wouldn't agree with nationalism as something to be celebrated. More of a "one world under God" kind of organisation.
However, just because England's flag has been hijacked by a small, insignificant splinter group like the BNP, doesn't mean the rest of us have to agree with it, does it? Surely we should be fighting back? No one could hijack the Scottish flag because it is so widely used. It is everywhere, including behind the Scottish leader at official engagements.
I'm not sure about the English Democrats, but an English parliament for England? Yes, I agree with that for sure, but perhaps you would have to be English living in Scotland to understand why.0 -
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Just because political parties are labelled racist doesn't mean they are. The English Democrats in particular don't mention race anywhere in their literature. "England for the English" presumably includes the English, whatever their race or religion.
The BNP are a different kettle of fish, because they do have policies based on race as opposed to being English. I would like to see it being an offence to use the national flag in any way that promotes racism.
Not sure about relying on the church to support the national flag; they possibly wouldn't agree with nationalism as something to be celebrated. More of a "one world under God" kind of organisation.
However, just because England's flag has been hijacked by a small, insignificant splinter group like the BNP, doesn't mean the rest of us have to agree with it, does it? Surely we should be fighting back? No one could hijack the Scottish flag because it is so widely used. It is everywhere, including behind the Scottish leader at official engagements.
I'm not sure about the English Democrats, but an English parliament for England? Yes, I agree with that for sure, but perhaps you would have to be English living in Scotland to understand why.
Nothing to do with labelling, I (deliberately) don't routinely read a newspaper because they are all biased and I research for myself. I went through some of the English Democrats policies earlier in the thread if you are interested. Three of their four key aims are based on immigration, the fourth is stopping political correctness which fits in with the same ideology! None of the four are positive or about anything to do with inclusivity nor getting the best for English people of all colours and creeds. Very very different website to Plaid Cymru or SNP which I also quoted, you don't need to assume they are crystal clear.
'One world under God' isn't really that different from 'one nation (all Brits) under parliament/ Queen' is it? If you think the Church of England using their own diocesan flags more often could appear exclusive how can't you see the same for councils doing that? Church of England has been representing and inclusive to most English people (eg. bible and services in English not Latin) for far longer than parliament (votes for male landowners only for centuries).
I'm not against an English parliament, tho really that should be based on London and the main parliament moved more centrally to Britain IMO, perhaps Leeds. An English parliament flying the English flag? Yes somehow that would make sense to me, but maybe I am being a tad illogical! :rotfl:
I honestly wish the BNP, UKIP, EDL and the like were insignificant, don't forget the BNP had an MP and over 50 council seats a few years back. They currently have two Euro MPs, including polling 6% nationally and 10% here in the Yorkshire region compared with a very significant 7% practising Christians. Can't think how to word that better, sorry, NOT AT ALL suggesting Christians = BNP, attempting to contrast perceived significance with actual proportion.
Declutterbug-in-progress.⭐️⭐️⭐️ ⭐️⭐️0 -
Nothing to do with labelling, I (deliberately) don't routinely read a newspaper because they are all biased and I research for myself. I went through some of the English Democrats policies earlier in the thread if you are interested. Three of their four key aims are based on immigration, the fourth is stopping political correctness which fits in with the same ideology! None of the four are positive or about anything to do with inclusivity nor getting the best for English people of all colours and creeds. Very very different website to Plaid Cymru or SNP which I also quoted, you don't need to assume they are crystal clear.
'One world under God' isn't really that different from 'one nation (all Brits) under parliament/ Queen' is it? If you think the Church of England using their own diocesan flags more often could appear exclusive how can't you see the same for councils doing that? Church of England has been representing and inclusive to most English people (eg. bible and services in English not Latin) for far longer than parliament (votes for male landowners only for centuries).
I'm not against an English parliament, tho really that should be based on London and the main parliament moved more centrally to Britain IMO, perhaps Leeds. An English parliament flying the English flag? Yes somehow that would make sense to me, but maybe I am being a tad illogical! :rotfl:
I honestly wish the BNP, UKIP, EDL and the like were insignificant, don't forget the BNP had an MP and over 50 council seats a few years back. They currently have two Euro MPs, including polling 6% nationally and 10% here in the Yorkshire region compared with a very significant 7% practising Christians. Can't think how to word that better, sorry, NOT AT ALL suggesting Christians = BNP, attempting to contrast perceived significance with actual proportion.
Well, the C of E flag isn't quite the St George's Cross, but near enough to. Even if only 7% of the English population are practising Christians, that doesn't mean the flag doesn't deserve to be the flag and celebrated, just because it is in the shape of a cross and shared with the church. I'm sick of political correctness when it comes to minorities.
It's a pity the English don't have a party like the SNP or Plaid Cymru. I look at the pace of development up here (with the exception of the Edinburgh trams - we'll have the second Firth of Forth crossing built before the trams are ready to go at the rate the trams are barely progressing) and wonder how my country to the south, with ten times as many people/taxpayers, isn't at least entitled to the same.0 -
Well, the C of E flag isn't quite the St George's Cross, but near enough to. Even if only 7% of the English population are practising Christians, that doesn't mean the flag doesn't deserve to be the flag and celebrated, just because it is in the shape of a cross and shared with the church. I'm sick of political correctness when it comes to minorities.
It's a pity the English don't have a party like the SNP or Plaid Cymru. I look at the pace of development up here (with the exception of the Edinburgh trams - we'll have the second Firth of Forth crossing built before the trams are ready to go at the rate the trams are barely progressing) and wonder how my country to the south, with ten times as many people/taxpayers, isn't at least entitled to the same.
We are a country of minorities in so many ways, communities are not simply divided by identity or even geographically but by interest too. Seems to me there is far too much emphasis on colour and ethnic background. I'm generic white British, yet child free which is about 10% of forty-something women. So a minority yet hopefully significant much as practising Christians.
This division by Englishness is so artificial, we are one people by species yet many people by community. This English identity and English culture ... I'm not sure it truly exists as perhaps it does for the Welsh or Scottish. English shire county life is just nothing like northern multicultural city life.
Totally agree that is a pity, we are fully on the same page there. As I said a couple of posts back "I'd seriously consider voting for a party that is positively patriotic a la SNP or Plaid Cymru." I was never in favour of devolution but I eat my words, the Scottish and Welsh parliaments seem to achieve so much more than they do in London. It would be great if the flags could be reclaimed but I think that has to be a non political context, a legacy of extreme right political groups hijacking it. Declutterbug-in-progress.⭐️⭐️⭐️ ⭐️⭐️0 -
I believe in the tooth fairy, she demands that i get free education and cakes, society is oppressing my god given rights by demanding i borrow and pay back stuff, and damn you all to hell for making me pay for my Batenbergs.
If any religion has nonsensical rules which don't apply in the modern world they should live with the consequences. They'll soon find a way round the rules but still keep their preposterous ideals.
Richard0
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