'A generation of Muslims not able to go to university?' blog discussion

seven-day-weekend

I agree that is right wing groups which use the St George's flag for dishonourable purposes. But it is the lefties who then say we should throw the baby out with the bathwater and not fly it at all in case it offends someone.

We should fly it regardless of what some right wing groups might use it for and don't let it be associated in peoples' minds with racist groups.

However, I bet if I was to put a flagpole in my garden and fly the flag, I would be accused of being racist.

Fire_Fox

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I agree that is right wing groups which use the St George's flag for dishonourable purposes. But it is the lefties who then say we should throw the baby out with the bathwater and not fly it at all in case it offends someone.

We should fly it regardless of what some right wing groups might use it for and don't let it be associated in peoples' minds with racist groups.

However, I bet if I was to put a flagpole in my garden and fly the flag, I would be accused of being racist.

Is it the lefties or does that suit your agenda? I don't hear right wing politicians saying different in their droves, except perhaps when they want to do the obligatory disagree with the other side for the sake of it (NB both parties as bad as each other). You can't just "not let it" the St George's Cross IS associated in huge numbers of people's minds with racism, perhaps even more for ethnic minorities than the general population (see second link).

Left wing activist writing in a right wing newspaper
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/bnp/7622405/Being-patriotic-doesnt-make-you-a-fascist.html
Left wing newspaper giving a reasonably balanced view
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2006/jul/12/sport.worldcup2006

Again why isn't the Church of England taking up the cause? I can't think of any non political organisation better situated to do so, our flag is named for a saint so there is additional meaning. With churches in every town and city, seeing a St George's Cross would soon become the norm.

olly300

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I agree that is right wing groups which use the St George's flag for dishonourable purposes. But it is the lefties who then say we should throw the baby out with the bathwater and not fly it at all in case it offends someone.

We should fly it regardless of what some right wing groups might use it for and don't let it be associated in peoples' minds with racist groups.

However, I bet if I was to put a flagpole in my garden and fly the flag, I would be accused of being racist.

Until last year many of my friends' and family members with Asian backgrounds ( and I'm talking Chinese, Japanese etc as well as India and Pakistan) and my older black friends' and family members felt threatened by Union flags. Those who had married them or are blooded related to them felt the same way. Why?

In childhood they had threatened and called names by people wearing or in one case tattooed with that flag on the street. As teenagers and young adults they had been threatened with being beaten up and knifed on the street, and been told to get out of pubs flying the union flag. Some of the people threatened are short women who were on their own who were threatened by much larger men in pairs and threes.

Thanks to the Jubilee and the Olympics where normal people and loads of businesses where flying the union flag, it helped stopped them associating the flag with just being threatened, beaten up and injured by racists.

The English flag needs to be reclaimed in the same mass way but you flying it on your own at the moment signifies to me you are possibly a racist.

The Scottish and Welsh flags don't give this signal even though I know plenty of people of all backgrounds who have been abused by Scottish thugs.

The reason you are told my councils etc not to fly the flag is simply to stop upsetting loads of people. Plus it stops you being accused of things you haven't done.

Oh when student loans first came in and had to be claimed there were issues with Muslim students then. Lots took out the loans and didn't tell their parents now the specific culture will determine whether they will take the loans out. My Muslim family members will be then again they are related to Christians, Hindus and Jews so have odd ideas on things due to having large family celebrations with them.

Gloomendoom

There's quite a few union flags being flown around here by perfectly well balanced, normal people (although, sadly, some seem oblivious to the fact that they are flying them upside-down.) They have been up since the jubilee and haven't been taken down since.

Errata

olly300 wrote: »

Oh when student loans first came in and had to be claimed there were issues with Muslim students then. Lots took out the loans and didn't tell their parents .

Where on earth did the parents think the money came from, the fairies?

Errata

This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom’

Many of whom were immigrants.

thebull

‘We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us

dktreesea

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I agree that is right wing groups which use the St George's flag for dishonourable purposes. But it is the lefties who then say we should throw the baby out with the bathwater and not fly it at all in case it offends someone.

We should fly it regardless of what some right wing groups might use it for and don't let it be associated in peoples' minds with racist groups.

However, I bet if I was to put a flagpole in my garden and fly the flag, I would be accused of being racist.

The difference up here is that Scots flying their flag don't give a rat's what anyone says or thinks about it. As for being asked to take it down, put it this way, it would be a brave man or woman who did so. And destroy it the way some ethnic groups have done in England? Nobody would dare.

dktreesea

Gloomendoom wrote: »

There's quite a few union flags being flown around here by perfectly well balanced, normal people (although, sadly, some seem oblivious to the fact that they are flying them upside-down.) They have been up since the jubilee and haven't been taken down since.

If you are in England, :mad:. It's England. A separate country. One that should be sovereign, in it's own right. There is no such country as The U.K. or Great Britain. Why should the English have to prefer the Union flag to their own flag, just because someone might not feel comfortable seeing the St George's Cross? It was good enough for knights, so why not now.

Sometimes I feel, being English, that I have to apologise for even daring to hold the notion that England deserves to be a separate, sovereign country.

thebull

‘This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great British freedom, ‘THE RIGHT TO LEAVE’.’
‘If you aren’t happy here then LEAVE. We didn’t force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.’
Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, WE will find the courage to start speaking and voicing the same truth