'A generation of Muslims not able to go to university?' blog discussion
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Rather a bold statement, and completely without foundation.Yes, the children of immigrants are born here, yet they don't integrate with us, mix with us, participate in our rituals, rituals that honour the land.................
....I'm smiling because I have no idea what's going on ...:)0 -
Golowan, Beltane, Stonehenge, Rannoch Moor, Ben Bhraggie, Glastonbury Tor - it's not just knowing about these places that matters. Our history is alive to us.
Tbf, I've not really heard of those places, but I like to look at countries, not based on their names, but based on it's history, and what kind of BS statement is "our history is alive to us"
No where in the world is history every going to die. Humans like to document what happens. That's why we know what went on thousands of years ago. It's what we do...The difference between new immigrants/their children and the first peoples of this land is that we actively engage with our land and celebrate it.
Define "actively engage with our land" and "celebrate it" If you're advocating patriotism, why should I be patriotic? This country - the one that refused to believe I was born here, at the age of one, the one that sheltered me,the one that pays for my health care bills, the one that goes to wars illegally, the one that uses propoganda techniques (ie: the Iraq war) - (Im trying to list the good and the bad there) Why should I celebrate absolutely every thing just because I was born here?
And then the Romans came and gave this thing that we call Christianity, and called it Christmas instead....Long before Golowan became the massive festival it now is, we would go down to Cornwall for the solstice, climb the hill and light a bonfire, and then watch as other bonfires were lit on the surrounding hills.On Ben Bhraggie is a statue of the Duke of Sutherland. People climb Ben Bhraggie to stone that statue, and some to curse his soul, in English and in Gaelic. In 2011 attempts were made to topple the statue. God willing, someone succeeds. There stands the image of a man who was, and remains, if his soul continues on, a disgrace to humanity.
So, according to you "history is alive" yey you're willing to destroy history at the same time?You describe the native people as "people drinking, urinating in the streets at 12pm, being yobbish". That's exactly the kind of "engagement" I would expect from immigrants and their families who don't feel any connection with the land.
Erm that is not what Im implying at all. I was asking if you consider these types of people to be British, then why don't you accept me as British?
I know full well that that is not the image of a British person. If any thing, the image abroad is reserved, smart, well dressed, stiff upper lip etc...Our history isn't something learnt from books. It's alive for us. We practice it. Practicing it together is what binds us. I've met Americans, whose ancestors haven't lived here for well over 200 years, come to Scotland and participate in the activities of their ancestors as if they had never left.
So, they do Morris dancing do they? They practise slavery do they? They deny the rights of women do they? They bring diseases do they? They hate Jews, Muslims, Catholics and Blacks do they? You seem to have this romanticised version of the past. We live in the 21st century, and I think you should get with the times...At the other end of the scale are immigrants or the children of immigrants such as yourself, who turn their noses up at the local people and have nothing to do with them. A British passport, to people like this, will not make a difference.
When you get abused by chavs on the street - white, black or whatever, I think it's natural to think that you're better than they are...As to the millions of overseas Scots, how many descendants of Scots do you think there are around the world? Approximately 40 million, 10 million of those just in one country, the United States. There are plenty of Scots and their descendents around the world who would invest in Scotland, provided Scotland is independent and doesn't come under Westminster's thumb.
Any stats on this? When Scotland itself has a tiny population, I'd hardly doubt that "millions" live abroad....
And 10 million is the population of Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man,Jersey and Guernsey combined. Your population really is tinyAnd from what I see, the Scottish government does a far better job of managing Scotland than Westminster does for England. Look at Morpeth. Flooded in 2008, and again in 2012, and still no adequate flood defences have been built.
That's debatable, and arguably England has a lot more people to cater for as well. It's cheaper to cater for a tiny population like Scotland
EDIT: It turns out that Scotland has a population of: 5,254,800. That's still pretty tiny, and Scotland may have thousands of people living abroad, but somehow I doubt millions.0 -
I'm confused here.
Muslims are allowed to pay interest as part of their religion.
Sharia Law is a cultural concept that does not have to be followed to be a Muslim.
I'm not sure what the problem is, and why it would stop Muslims taking out a loan & going to Uni.
It would stop people who want to follow a certain cultural behaviour, but that is their choice and doesn't get in the way of religion.
Am i missing or not understanding something here?0 -
I'm confused here.
Muslims are allowed to pay interest as part of their religion.
Sharia Law is a cultural concept that does not have to be followed to be a Muslim.
I'm not sure what the problem is, and why it would stop Muslims taking out a loan & going to Uni.
It would stop people who want to follow a certain cultural behaviour, but that is their choice and doesn't get in the way of religion.
Am i missing or not understanding something here?
Its not a cultural lawNeeding to lose weight start date 26 December 2011 current loss 60 pound Down. Lots more to go to get into my size 6 jeans0 -
waqasahmed wrote: »Tbf, I've not really heard of those places, but I like to look at countries, not based on their names, but based on it's history, and what kind of BS statement is "our history is alive to us".....
.....EDIT: It turns out that Scotland has a population of: 5,254,800. That's still pretty tiny, and Scotland may have thousands of people living abroad, but somehow I doubt millions.
I never said Scots living abroad, as in people born in Scotland, but rather descendents of Scots, people who count their roots, their blood, as Scottish, who now live abroad. 10 million in the USA alone. People whose great grandfather was a Scot, for example. Do you think the descendents of the Irish/Scots/Palestinians/Greeks etc feel any less of their roots just because they happene to be born on a different place on the planet?
The fact that you refer to some of the locals using a derogatory term like "chavs" shows your alienation from the local culture and people. You are the kind of a person I hope, if people have to lose their jobs, gets to experience the reality of gbeing poor, with limited means and limited chances to escape your fate. Being born in a place isn't enough to be integrated, to feel a welcome part of it. I've been an immigrant. Never again, my land under my feet at last, thank God.
All the things you speak of as history are man made events. You miss the point completely. Our land is alive to us. It carries the memories of what took place on it for millenia. Even those of us who are not Druids still go to Stonehenge, still celebrate and pray together with them. It's our way of praying for and honouring our land. We visit places to honour our seers, some from centuries past who foretold certain events, some of which have happened in our lifetimes.0 -
I'm confused here.
Muslims are allowed to pay interest as part of their religion.
Sharia Law is a cultural concept that does not have to be followed to be a Muslim.
I'm not sure what the problem is, and why it would stop Muslims taking out a loan & going to Uni.
It would stop people who want to follow a certain cultural behaviour, but that is their choice and doesn't get in the way of religion.
Am i missing or not understanding something here?
Lending money for interest (riba) is expressedly forbidden in the Quran. There is a further clarification, attributed to the prophet Mohammed, whereby he states that lending and borrowing, where interest is involved, is equally abhorrent in the eyes of Allah and both are forbidden.0 -
I never said Scots living abroad, as in people born in Scotland, but rather descendents of Scots, people who count their roots, their blood, as Scottish, who now live abroad. 10 million in the USA alone. People whose great grandfather was a Scot, for example. Do you think the descendents of the Irish/Scots/Palestinians/Greeks etc feel any less of their roots just because they happene to be born on a different place on the planet?
I didn't say that Scots moved out either. Im saying that you're unlikely to have "millions" of Scots living abroad (ie: by descendent) when the countries population is only just over 5 million....
And yes I do. If you've been living in the USA all your life, your dad's lived there, your grandfathers lived there, but your great grand father was Scottish, I'd say that you'd probably identify as an American
Only one generation lies between me and my parents (both of whom are immigrants)
I don't do patriotism, BUT I'd say that I'm British before I'm Pakistani (though for some reason you want to deny my citizenship just because I don't have ancestry here)
On another point, would you deny my friend citizenship, who's grand father fought for the British in WW2?The fact that you refer to some of the locals using a derogatory term like "chavs" shows your alienation from the local culture and people.
I do like how you pointed that bit out, and disregarded my point about the stereotype abroad
If it makes you feel any better, I know some Pakistani chavs as well...
And I'd happily be alienated when they spout abuse at me, for nothing other than being different...You are the kind of a person I hope, if people have to lose their jobs, gets to experience the reality of gbeing poor, with limited means and limited chances to escape your fate. Being born in a place isn't enough to be integrated, to feel a welcome part of it. I've been an immigrant. Never again, my land under my feet at last, thank God.
Erm, I *am* technically poor. Im just good with my money, so that's a moot point right there....
And I do like how you say that, but then advocate Scotland's removal from the UK. What's that about integrating again?
And why don't you think I've integrated? Entirely because of my ethnicity, my religion and lack of patriotism?All the things you speak of as history are man made events. You miss the point completely. Our land is alive to us. It carries the memories of what took place on it for millenia. Even those of us who are not Druids still go to Stonehenge, still celebrate and pray together with them. It's our way of praying for and honouring our land. We visit places to honour our seers, some from centuries past who foretold certain events, some of which have happened in our lifetimes.
Much of history is man made events. And I like how you speak of "Morris dancing, bowls, the railway/steam trains, Pink Floyd/The Rolling Stones/The Beatles, English classical music composers, like Elgar and Britten, cricket, rugby, the premier league, Twiggy, Cilla Black, the Sex Pistols, Queen (the band).
Vast country houses, Butlins, fish and chips,Mother Shipton, the Glastonbury festival, Stonehenge, London, the West End shows, Shakespeare, Chaucer, poetry, from Ted Hughes and Sylvia Plath, back through the centuries. Likewise art. Turner, Constable. Ceramics, like Moorcroft, Wedgwood. What about fashion, like the mini skirt? Mary Quant. Vivienne Westwood. Doc martens, corduroy anything. The flat cap.
"
All of which include man made events OR you talking about historical figures...
OK fish isn't man made, but the act of battering them is man made
And "we" collectively do not go to Stonehenge to worship the land, or whatever it is that you are trying to say0 -
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waqasahmed wrote: »May I ask if you know of any one who performs "rituals that honour the land" ? Because I certainly don't
It almost makes me think that dktreesea is trolling
Muck spreading is a frequent ritual, no idea if the land feels honoured or dishonoured, I doubt farmers go to the bother of asking it......................I'm smiling because I have no idea what's going on ...:)0 -
waqasahmed wrote: »May I ask if you know of any one who performs "rituals that honour the land" ? Because I certainly don't
It almost makes me think that dktreesea is trolling
The fact you even think this just goes to show that not all people born in Britain are "native" Britons by ancestry. If you mixed with more local people, maybe you would know people who pray in sweat lodges the traditional way (i.e. traditional to our ancestors, not just to the native Americans), go to the local festivals and participate in mass rituals like the gatherings at places like Stonehenge and Penzance.
Yes, you may well be born here, but you don't appear to embrace either our culture or customs.0
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