Solar PV returns in Scotland

[Deleted User]

Interesting discussion.

I would say as long as the numbers stackup and you are disiplined then go for it.

For our childrens accounts I used to to play hopscotch to get the best rates but now just do NS&I Childrens Savings Bonds as so much easier to manage and the rates are good enough.

The main reason solar made it onto my roof was purely as a mechanism to overpay the mortgage. Like you our mort rate is 2.79% and whilst it is low doing everything to hammer it down. The free leccy is a bonus really.

PS Cheers Mart for the tips, went for a new OptiSmart and second hand CurrentCost ENViR. Just need a NetSmart device and in conjuction with PVOutput I can setup auto email alerts If accurate I'll also be able to post my readings more often

Martyn1981

Hiya CDTD. Kiddies ages are fine then, plenty of time to put the money back - so to speak!

Sorry to hark on, but shading is probably the last major concern to tick off the list then. But early March is perfect timing. I don't want to belittle Nov, Dec, Jan & Feb generation, but a bit of shading in those 'low' months is acceptable. What you don't want is anything more than minor shading Mch to Oct. So a quick check of your roof now(ish) on a sunny day would be ideal timing, especially early and late when the sun is lower.

Have you tried PVGIS for a generation estimate? It's very accurate. There's a walkthrough (post#1 section 5) here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3872445

If you're not too sure, then PM me and I'll do it for you.

Just a thought, but if you're considering a long term investment for your children's money, then I suppose you should really look for similar lock-in products for comparisons. But you'd need to compare to products that pay out the interest each year, rather than ones that compound it, since the PV will be 'paying out' each year and re-filling the pot for use.

As I said yesterday this is a really different approach to PV investment, very interesting. Taking it a little further I can imagine parents considering spending £5k on PV to 'help towards the future environment of their children'.

Then there's the idea of putting some money aside for the children as they grow up.

So combining the two ideas seems like a double win!

Mart.

[Deleted User]

Forgot to say...

Remember to take advantage of the Home Renewables Loan Scheme from the EST.

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/scotland/Take-action/Find-a-grant/Home-renewables-loan-scheme

You can get up to £2K @ 0% over four years That's what we took towards the PV.

Cheers

rogerblack

counting_down_the_days... wrote: »

Just had a thought.... Would it be bad to take the money out of our two childrens accounts and then over the 20 years they can have all the returns? .

Several potential issues.
If you live in the house forever, that removes most of them.
If you resell the house, you have extra expense arranging legally so that the new owners can't remove the panels, and have to allow access to repair.
If this goes wrong, and the panels stop generating - no FIT.
It may reduce the value of the house to some buyers.
(They can't for example put in dormer windows)
The government decides to stop paying FIT, or reduces the rate. Seems unlikely now.
The feed in tarrif risks being treated as your income, if you are ever need to claim any means tested benefits. Making it your childrens income may be complex.

loskie

Better off investing the kids money on the stock market for returns. Personally I do not think purchasing the solar array with their money sounds good.
Winter months can be good for solar but totally unreliable. Feb 2012 we made only 80kwh Feb 2013 we made 190 kwh.
March 2012 was excellent.
Hot summer months are maybe not as good as you may imagine. Although bright the air tends to be more hazy plus the systems are less efficient in their operation when hot. If it gets too hot for example, and inverters do generate heat, they derate and run at a much lower efficiency. Hence the bright but cool days of last March being so good.
Worth having a look at Sheffield University's "Sheffield Solar Farm" website.
I cannot see how solar can be a good deal with the current FIT rate. It is designed to give a break even only not to be a money maker which is why the original more generous terms were dropped

loskie

You should be able to get better than 1% on your childrens account. Look at Scottish Building Society although they have just dropped some their excellent rates. We were getting 4% on a regular saver for the last 3 years but this is about to drop to 2%

Martyn1981

loskie wrote: »

If it gets too hot for example, and inverters do generate heat, they derate and run at a much lower efficiency.

Just a quick comment, but if your inverter is derating, then it and its location have got seriously hot. You should consider ways to cool it (and the location down), perhaps additional venting.

I'm lucky, my ESE inverters are in a cool downstairs toilet, and I can lock the window slightly open. My WNW inverter is in the loft, but it's pretty cool, and I can open a Velux, but more importantly it's very efficient (98%) and has an enormous heatsink with natural convection, so the little waste heat, is moved on quickly.

Mart.

counting_down_the_days...

Oh goodness, thanks for all the responses. I'll try to respond to everyone!

Mart, thanks again for your info. I had a look at the FAQ's the other day and thought I had my head round it, but tbh, I think this is a bit out my depth! I was trying to look up the PVGIS last night, I googled it, but it didn't seem to have my postcode? I had a look at the link you gave, but couldn't find it in there - sorry. However, on google earth, our roof has no shading. We do have two vent/pipe things which will give slight shading, but there are no trees, poles, other houses that will block us, just clouds

Jeepjunkie, I am applying for an interest free loan, but waiting on it to be approved and it needs to be installed & forms returned by the end of this month :O but I'm confident we'll make it!

Roger, We don't have any plans to move, but obviously can't say it defo won't happen. We both have fairly secure jobs (shouldn't have said that!) and I'm hoping to have the mortgage paid off in about 7-10 years time. So we should be in a comfortable position to pay the kids back if required. We also have the money to pay for it, but with paying for nursery and having two lots of maternity leave and no income, we haven't added to our savings for a few years, so I'm reluctant to use that money just incase we need it for something. I'm sure the FIT's payments are guaranteed for 20 years, and are meant to increase with RPI so that shouldn't be an issue. The panels are also guaranteed so I'm hoping they won't break Also, it's tax free money so I doubt we'd have to declare it, but tbh, with all our savings, we wouldn't be entitled to any benefits until it was used up.

Loskie, I wouldn't consider putting the children's money in stocks and shares. I feel gambling with solar is enough, as it appears the returns are quite reliable. Also, I can't be bothered with regular savers etc, I did this for the first child for the first year, but I don't put money away for them anymore, the money they have is birthday & Christmas money. Also, 4% on a reg saver is only 2% over the year.

Thanks for everyones input, I'll try to keep following and give you updates. x

Martyn1981

counting_down_the_days... wrote: »

Oh goodness, thanks for all the responses. I'll try to respond to everyone!

Mart, thanks again for your info. I had a look at the FAQ's the other day and thought I had my head round it, but tbh, I think this is a bit out my depth! I was trying to look up the PVGIS last night, I googled it, but it didn't seem to have my postcode? I had a look at the link you gave, but couldn't find it in there - sorry. However, on google earth, our roof has no shading. We do have two vent/pipe things which will give slight shading, but there are no trees, poles, other houses that will block us, just clouds

Thanks for everyones input, I'll try to keep following and give you updates. x

Hiya CDTD, if you go to PVGIS site (click the link on the FAQ thread), then you can use the map on the LHS to zero down to your specific location. If as you get closer it says 'no data available' go to the bottom of the map, hover over 'other maps' and click on 'normal maps', then zero right down to where you know your house is.

Alternatively, if you don't mind telling me your postcode in a PM, I'll have a go for you, no probs.

Slight worry - vent pipes. These are not good news. How tall are they, could they cast a shadow across a complete row (or column) of cells in a PV panel? If so, then worst case you could lose that panel to shading, and it will have a strong impact on all the other panels in it's string (I'm assuming for a 4kWp install you'll have two strings).

There are solutions to this:

Firstly the face of the panels will sit nearly 100mm above your roof surface, so that might help if the vents only protrude a little.

Secondly, you may simply be able to cut the vents down a bit, but (if soil pipes) they should be at least 900mm above the top of any windows.

Secondly (cont.) if they would end up being less than 900mm, then there are products that get around this issue and can be fitted to the tops of the vents. they allow air to go in, but stop foul air coming out. In fact these can even be fitted internally if the pipes can be intersected in a void in your house. If this is an issue let me know and I'll post links to such products.

Thirdly a more complex system using something like SolarEdge power optimisers (which I have on my heavily shaded WNW roof) will work, but the additional cost, and extra components up on the roof are probably not worth it if the issue is a pipe that can be 'addressed'.

Don't panic, but check this with your installer as a hard shadow (chimney, vent, telegraph pole, tv aerial etc) can be a significant problem.

[I'm starting to make my usual mistake here, and that is in trying to warn about everything, I sometimes make it sound much more complex than it is. Just trying to tick off any issues for peace of mind, sorry if that is a bit scary.]

Mart.

counting_down_the_days...

I didn't want to bother you, but as you've requested twice, I think you did genuinely mean it! I'll pm you my postcode. I've tried to click on the link but it isn't bringing up the page? Thank you so much