MSE News: 'Immoral' My Little Pony game tempts kids to spend £70 on 'virtual gems'

gjchester

thelawnet wrote: »

My ipad doesn't look like that.

Maybe you are running a different ios version?

Possibly, but as Fire Fox showed its on the PC version and my Ipod and iPhone, you can see if you unfold the sections on yours the information is there, if people choose to read it is another matter.

Fire_Fox

thelawnet wrote: »

Eh?

That's a screenshot from a PC.

My Little Pony does not run on a PC, it runs on an ipad and most people download from the App Store on the ipad/iphone.

In fact it isn't crystal clear at all:


If you scroll down, you can see this:


It is not what any reasonable person would call crystal-clear.



It is described as a free game, and the age recommendations are 4+.

The Restrictions menu is actually a submenu, and far from obvious or intuitive. The parental controls ARE the Restrictions menu, so that's the same point twice.

The ipad DOES NOT COME WITH AN INSTRUCTION BOOKLET.

As for 'supervising the very young child', this just brings me back to my point about childless troglodytes. It does not make you a bad parent because you don't feel the need to sit there staring at My Little F***ing Pony while your child plays with it, or constantly supervise them with everything they do for every second of the day. It's absurd to even suggest this to be honest.

We are talking about 4 and 5-year-old children here, while older children/teenagers might be browsing the web, trying to access pornography and other things, and you should be supervising or restricting their access to the internet, children of this age just want to play with My Little Pony, and it should be perfectly safe to let them pla on these apps! This isn't a general 'parental controls' issue, it's a specific issue relating to in-app purchases, which Apple choose to ship as insecure.

And AGAIN you breach forum rules and resort to personal attacks.

Crack on and give your children everything they "just want" without bothering to research if it is safe. I could not care less if you "don't feel the need" to parent your children effectively, but don't whinge about the consequences to your bank balance, their health, education or liberty.

It's crystal clear to the 1856 reasonable adults who gave the game an average four and a half star rating, most of whom clearly don't feel the need to be treated like a four year old by Apple.

thelawnet

Lol at you with one breath whining about forum rules, and then in the next spouting intended-to-be-insulting drivel about bad parenting and other melodramatic nonsense about liberty and health.

It's crystal clear that whatever the reviews are of the my little pony game, they certainly weren't all posted by adults.

Apple choose to ship their device with an idiotic 15 minute window where people can accidentally double purchase (commonly reported) or have their children buy things. There is no justification for this, and only someone with four year old level intellect could think otherwise.

Lip_Stick

My opinion on these types of games, is that it's wrong for them to market them towards children, and have pricey in-app purchases costing what they do. I certainly think they should be limited. We all know kids desire certain characters etc especially when it's to do with the latest toy/film and these play on that.

What parent, in their right mind, would allow their child to spend £70 on a mountain of gems, or whatever it was? More emphasis when viewing the game's download page should be put on it being a restricted game when not paying.. rather than just saying it's 'free' until you read all the T&Cs.

thelawnet - you made me lol with your 'As for 'supervising the very young child', this just brings me back to my point about childless troglodytes. It does not make you a bad parent because you don't feel the need to sit there staring at My Little F***ing Pony while your child plays with it' :rotfl: - Couldn't agree more.

gjchester

thelawnet wrote: »

Apple choose to ship their device with an idiotic 15 minute window where people can accidentally double purchase (commonly reported) or have their children buy things. There is no justification for this, and only someone with four year old level intellect could think otherwise.

Most cars can do 100+ MPH but the UK speed limit is 70, how can Ford/Vauxhall/ VW and so on justify this. It's an outrage that the car manufacturers could let people go faster than the speed limit and run up speeding fines, lets ban any car that can break the speed limit.

The justification for the windows is clear, its a PITA to have to enter you password each time. As the majority of iPad users are adults, ipads are £400+ to buy, and Itunes account CAN be set up with a card or voucher.

Remember to allow these in app purchases the child has to be bought/ given acccess to the Ipad, have said Ipad put on the home wifi network, been given access to someones iTunes account (which involves agreeing that you are not under 13 to use it), have iTunes account with a credit card attatched and be in a 15 minute windows since a password was entered to make a purchase.

The number of times this can happen is pretty small, Apple DO provide safeguards, but people don't set them, (no different to the number of people who don't use a SIM/PIN code on a phone then complain when it's stolen that a huge bill been run up.)

Unfortuantly many people don't ever use the safeguards until it's too late, because they simply believe it won't happen to them. It's been well publisised that this has happened before, but I'll guarantee that it will happen again in the next 12 months prompting the same outrage.

It's no different to having Amazons one click ordering on, leaving your Ebay account logged on, giving access to any on demand service where the child can buying something online, only difference is the speed of delivery.

The problem isn't bad parenting, its bad security behaviour on the parents part. The iTunes account owner probalby gave the child the password because they didn't think of the consequences, you would not give you cash card to child with the PIN written on it, but people don't think of anything on the net like that.

Unfortuantly even if iTunes were to have no in app purchases without a password the lax security awareness of many people means they' write the password down to remember it, or simply give it to the child to stop being bothered pestered so negating the security anyway.

Fire_Fox

thelawnet wrote: »

It's crystal clear that whatever the reviews are of the my little pony game, they certainly weren't all posted by adults.

Apple choose to ship their device with an idiotic 15 minute window where people can accidentally double purchase (commonly reported) or have their children buy things. There is no justification for this, and only someone with four year old level intellect could think otherwise.

1. To hold and use an iTunes account you must be 13, so either the reviews were posted by teens, adults, or younger children who are being poorly supervised
2. If you bothered to read some of the reviews when you read the blurb you'd note an impressive grasp of grammar and spelling. Not known too may four or five year olds who could post that standard of review
3. Plenty are clearly written by parents who play along with their child and plenty more by 'bronies'. Most of the low star reviews refer to the game 'hanging' or 'freezing' not about in app purchases. This leads me to believe most parents are capable of utilising the Restrictions menu and/ or supervising their little darlings.


"REQUIREMENTS FOR USE OF THE ITUNES SERVICE

This iTunes Service is available for individuals aged 13 years or older. If you are 13 or older but under the age of 18, you should review this Agreement with your parent or guardian to make sure that you and your parent or guardian understand it

YOUR ACCOUNT

As a registered user of the Service, you may establish an account ("Account"). Don’t reveal your Account information to anyone else. You are solely responsible for maintaining the confidentiality and security of your Account and for all activities that occur on or through your Account, and you agree to immediately notify iTunes of any security breach of your Account. iTunes shall not be responsible for any losses arising out of the unauthorised use of your Account.

In order to purchase and download iTunes Products from the Service, you must enter your Apple ID and password to authenticate your Account. Once you have authenticated your Account, you will not need to authenticate again for fifteen minutes. During this time, you will be able to purchase and download iTunes Products without re-entering your password. You can turn off the ability to make iTunes Product purchases by adjusting the settings on your computer or iOS Device. For more information, please see http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1904 or http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4213.

In order to purchase and download App Store Products from the Stores, you must enter your Apple ID and password to authenticate your Account. Once you have authenticated your Account, you will not need to authenticate again for fifteen minutes. During this time, you will be able to purchase and download App Store Products without re-entering your password. You can turn off the ability to make App Store Product purchases by adjusting the settings on your computer or iOS Device. For more information, please see http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1904 or http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4213.

IN-APP PURCHASES

Certain App Store Products may include functionality that enables you to receive additional services, or licenses to additional functionality or content for use within the App Store Product ("In App Purchases"). In App Purchases that are consumed during the use of the App Store Product (for example, virtual ammunition) cannot be transferred among devices; can be downloaded only once; and after being downloaded, cannot be replaced. Once a consumable In App Purchase is acquired and received by you, iTunes shall be without liability to you in the event of any loss, destruction, or damage. All In-App Purchases are deemed App Store Products, and In App Purchases received within Third-Party Products are deemed Third-Party Products, and treated as such, for purposes of these terms and conditions.

You must authenticate to acquire In-App Purchases separately from any authentication to obtain App Store Products by entering your password when prompted, but once you have authenticated to obtain an In-App Purchase, you will be able to acquire additional In-App Purchases for fifteen minutes without re-entering your password. You can turn off the ability to acquire In-App Purchases on your iOS Device by going to your Settings, selecting “General” and then selecting the “Restrictions” tab, as outlined at http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4213."
http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/uk/terms.html

thelawnet

gjchester wrote: »

Most cars can do 100+ MPH but the UK speed limit is 70, how can Ford/Vauxhall/ VW and so on justify this. It's an outrage that the car manufacturers could let people go faster than the speed limit and run up speeding fines, lets ban any car that can break the speed limit.

Strawman anyone?

My car does not say 'My Little Pony car, suitable for 4+' on it.

A car has nothing in common with an ipad.

The justification for the windows is clear, its a PITA to have to enter you password each time.

How is it a PITA to be asked for a password in order to use your credit card? That's just standard practice.

While I've heard complaints from people accidentally clicking buy twice, I'm struggling to think of a scenario where you would want to make multiple in-game purchases within the space of 15 minutes.

Remember to allow these in app purchases the child has to be bought/ given acccess to the Ipad,

Nothing untoward there.

It's usual for a family computer to be used by the family.

have said Ipad put on the home wifi network,

An ipad without network access is not much use.

Nothing unusual here

been given access to someones iTunes account (which involves agreeing that you are not under 13 to use it),

No, this is wrong, the children are just using the ipad. They have not necessarily been given the itunes password. (I agree that parents should not do this btw.)

have iTunes account with a credit card attatched

Well yes, the fact that you are asked for a credit card on signup and are not given the option to signup without a payment method unless you jump through certain hoops, means that the vast majority of ipads are linked to a credit card.

So nothing unusual here.

and be in a 15 minute windows since a password was entered to make a purchase.

Yes this is true.

The number of times this can happen is pretty small

Er, no not really. If you buy 'Peppa Pig's Day Out' e-book in an app for your child as an example, that leaves a 15-minute window when your child can buy other books without your consent. So this would happen in fact any time you bought something.

Given that the ipad is less usable without wifi/credit card/etc. all the other supposedly rare circumstances that you mention above are entirely commonplace.

Apple DO provide safeguards, but people don't set them, (no different to the number of people who don't use a SIM/PIN code on a phone then complain when it's stolen that a huge bill been run up.)

Well no that's yet another false analogy. It's blindingly obvious to anyone that if someone steals your phone that they can use it to make calls.

I mean duh.

However it is not obvious that an itunes account which in fact has a SIM/PIN code/password is left vulnerable for 15 minutes.

There's no reason to assume this at all.

It's no different to having Amazons one click ordering on, leaving your Ebay account logged on, giving access to any on demand service where the child can buying something online, only difference is the speed of delivery.

More bad analogies. One-click in Amazon is opt-in. You have to turn it on.

The problem isn't bad parenting, its bad security behaviour on the parents part. The iTunes account owner probalby gave the child the password because they didn't think of the consequences, you would not give you cash card to child with the PIN written on it, but people don't think of anything on the net like that.

That's not always true. Certainly some parents do, and I agree that that's a bad idea, although I think it's a bad idea exacerbated by the 'digital crack' sales of these games. Ipad games cost typically £3 to buy outright, but people can spend thousands on these games, and I don't think most people are aware of that.

thelawnet

Fire_Fox wrote: »

1. To hold and use an iTunes account you must be 13, so either the reviews were posted by teens, adults, or younger children who are being poorly supervised
2. If you bothered to read some of the reviews when you read the blurb you'd note an impressive grasp of grammar and spelling. Not known too may four or five year olds who could post that standard of review

I'm not really sure what point you were trying to make here.

You claimed that all these reviews were made by adults. Now you are saying that they might have been made by 13 year olds, or parents on behalf of their 4 year olds.

3. Plenty are clearly written by parents who play along with their child and plenty more by 'bronies'. Most of the low star reviews refer to the game 'hanging' or 'freezing' not about in app purchases. This leads me to believe most parents are capable of utilising the Restrictions menu and/ or supervising their little darlings.

I doubt most parents use the Restrictions Menu, or sit there watching My Little Pony. They just haven't been caught out by this issue. It's not going to affect everyone. Your argument appears to be:

* most My Little Pony users are very happy
* therefore all My Little Pony users must be very happy

Er, fail.

"REQUIREMENTS FOR USE OF THE ITUNES SERVICE"

I'm not even going to read that.

People don't.

PC Pitstop conducted a test on this, and it took 3000 downloads before a user read the EULA, and claimed the $1000 reward it contained.

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/05/02/23/2315211/man-finds-1000-prize-in-eula

In another example, Gamestation claimed the exclusive right to people's souls, and none of nearly 10,000 customers objected to this:
http://www.out-law.com/page-10929

Fire_Fox

thelawnet wrote: »

I'm not really sure what point you were trying to make here.

You claimed that all these reviews were made by adults. Now you are saying that they might have been made by 13 year olds, or parents on behalf of their 4 year olds.

I doubt most parents use the Restrictions Menu, or sit there watching My Little Pony. They just haven't been caught out by this issue. It's not going to affect everyone. Your argument appears to be:

* most My Little Pony users are very happy
* therefore all My Little Pony users must be very happy

Er, fail.



I'm not even going to read that.

People don't.

PC Pitstop conducted a test on this, and it took 3000 downloads before a user read the EULA, and claimed the $1000 reward it contained.

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/05/02/23/2315211/man-finds-1000-prize-in-eula

In another example, Gamestation claimed the exclusive right to people's souls, and none of nearly 10,000 customers objected to this:
http://www.out-law.com/page-10929

My point is quite clear
"Basically there are multiple levels of protection. You can say "but what if you didn't read the blurb, didn't adhere to the age recommendations, didn't explore the Restrictions menu, didn't set up parental controls, didn't read the instructions booklet, didn't supervise your very young child, didn't want to set up a password, don't want to buy an iTunes voucher ... ??"

And you'd be right. But that's lazy parenting, not Apple failing to protect your credit card from your child."

We can add " ... and can't be bothered to read iTunes terms and conditions?" if you wish. You don't even need to do all of the above, a couple would confer adequate protection. Isn't it just as "blindingly obvious" you input your credit card details there is a risk of them being misused if you don't set up the security features, as it is "blindingly obvious" you protect the handset with a passcode and being careful who has access to it?

The passcode protects against far more than calls, it protects online banking, browsing history, social networking sites, e-mails, Amazon eBay and PayPal accounts, address book, tracking apps/ spyware being installed, identity theft .... From my iPhone you could get my date of birth and maiden surname, names and DOB of parents and sibling, which bank I use at the very least. Other people have photos of their children, DOB and school details; home address and dates of family holidays or business trips so when their house is unoccupied, car numberplate, spouse's name and wedding anniversary. :eek:

Again I don't need to be treated like a four year old by Apple so a select few can engage in lazy parenting and not have to apply basic security for their own credit card details, any more than I feel others are responsible for the information on my iPhone that could be utilised in identity theft. What else would you call "most parents [failing to] use the Restrictions menu" and thus failing to block access to p0rn sites, 18+ films, explicit lyrics and other entertainment inappropriate for a child if not dubious parenting?

thelawnet

Fire_Fox wrote: »

The passcode protects against far more than calls, it protects online banking, browsing history, social networking sites, e-mails, Amazon eBay and PayPal accounts, address book, tracking apps/ spyware being installed, identity theft .... From my iPhone you could get my date of birth and maiden surname, names and DOB of parents and sibling, which bank I use at the very least. Other people have photos of their children, DOB and school details; home address and dates of family holidays or business trips so when their house is unoccupied, car numberplate, spouse's name and wedding anniversary. :eek:

Anyone who chooses to store personal data on their ipad will be well aware that there is personal data on their ipad.

It's not however obvious that when you create an itunes account with a password, that it can be accessed without the password for a 15 minute period.

And I'm not really sure what the relavance of the pin is in relation to My Little Pony. If an ipad is locked with a pin then it's unusable until unlocked. However if your child is playing with the ipad because you have unlocked it for them, then the pin is irrelevant, and provides no protection at all against unauthorised itunes purchases.

Again I don't need to be treated like a four year old by Apple so a select few can engage in lazy parenting and not have to apply basic security for their own credit card details,

Eh? There's basic security, it's the username + password, it's just that Apple for some reason choose to make this insecure. Given that Apple are the world's largest company and generally regarded as trustworthy, a normal rational person would have no reason to believe that their credit card was so insecure that a four-year-old could run up thousands in unauthorised purchase through this device.

As I recall you have in-app purchases turned off, so I'm not really sure how this supposed infringement of your liberties affects you.

any more than I feel others are responsible for the information on my iPhone that could be utilised in identity theft. What else would you call "most parents [failing to] use the Restrictions menu" and thus failing to block access to p0rn sites, 18+ films, explicit lyrics and other entertainment inappropriate for a child if not dubious parenting?

A four year old playing My Little Pony is, believe it or not, not going to download !!!!!! and 18 movies. It's not even a relevant argument.