MSE News: 'Immoral' My Little Pony game tempts kids to spend £70 on 'virtual gems'

Fire_Fox

Pointless discussion if you are going to resort to insults, plenty of people with children feel the same as I. You DO NOT need to add a credit card nor is the fifteen minutes relevant if you switch OFF in app purchases which AGAIN is in the same part of the Restrictions menu as the parental controls.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4406667

rockin_plumber

thelawnet wrote: »

The fact is that Apple established a new paradigm, one that, had it come from Microsoft, would have been deemed insecure and monopolistic, and that is that in order to make use of your computer, you must give its maker access to your bank account.

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!

thelawnet wrote: »

You are being disingenuous. My Microsoft computer does not demand my credit card details to be functional. Apple does. Ipads and iphones are not close to fully functional without a credit card....

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!


And this another problem....
People do not need to put in bank account details or credit card details...

Another case of people not understanding how to use the device.

This is the reason apple sell iTunes cards for topping up your account is it not?

gjchester

thelawnet wrote: »

My Microsoft computer does not demand my credit card details to be functional. Apple does. Ipads and iphones are not close to fully functional without a credit card.

An iPad DOES NOT require you to buy apps you can use free ones for nothing. A better analogy is your computer comes with a operating system, if you want games or utilities (such as Office, Call of Duty and so on) then you need to pay. The mechanism is different, computers generally still have software supplied on media not downloaded, but the principles the same.

thelawnet wrote: »

Microsoft content themselves with a one-time payment - you buy Office, you buy Windows, and that's it - you can use that forever. This isn't enough for Apple.

Nope, that's the old software sales model, the latest office comes in two versions, Office 2013 and Office 365. 365 is a pay yearly subscription deal. Adobe are doing it with the CS6 suite, either pay a chunk up front or pay monthly. Google do it with Google Apps. Don't pay and you lose access to edit in any application.

You have to pay for a Windows upgrade, and when XP goes off support next year, you can pay Microsoft for custom support to keep using it but it's not cheap starting at $50,000 for one PC.

Hardly pay once and use forever.

thelawnet wrote: »

The fact is that Apple established a new paradigm, one that, had it come from Microsoft;

Have you seen the latest Windows 8 Advert with a child paining and calling dad on Skype, if mum and dad had set up the Microsoft store with a credit card they'd be I the same boat. Computers have been advertised as educational tools for kids for years, RM built their company selling to the educational market, Apples ad's are slicker but not promoting anything new.

thelawnet wrote: »

This should come with default restrictions, and analogies about pornography or gambling are merely obfuscating what is a very simple issue of you defending the indefensible in respect of Apple.

But they DO come with restrictions, the fact they are off is no different to any computer. As has been mentioned you don't need to put a card on file with Apple, you could use a iTunes voucher, Apple has provided the tools, but they can't force people to use them.

thelawnet

rockin_plumber wrote: »

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!



WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!

"To create an Apple Id, you must provide credit card, gift card, or gift certificate information."

It is possible to create an ID using a gift card, which you could buy with cash or whatever, but if you purchase an iPad it would be unusable until you either enter your credit card details (instantaneous) or buy a gift card.

If you do not wish to spend money on apps, then you have a problem because the gift card is non-refundable.

In the US it is possible to create an iTunes account without any financial details at all. That isn't possible here. I presume US consumer protection laws are stronger in this area.

In order to update and use free apps such as Facebook, you can either pay for a useless gift card, or enter your card details. Why? Because Apple want people to spend as much money as possible.

This site is about money saving.

thelawnet

gjchester wrote: »

An iPad DOES NOT require you to buy apps you can use free ones for nothing.

Well not strictly true. My friend has an iphone, and he wants to use the free Facebook app, but it doesn't work because he needs to update it. He can't update it because in order to update it he must enter financial details, which he is unwilling to do.

He also can't install any new free apps because of the same issue.

A better analogy is your computer comes with a operating system, if you want games or utilities (such as Office, Call of Duty and so on) then you need to pay. The mechanism is different, computers generally still have software supplied on media not downloaded, but the principles the same.

You can get free software.

Nope, that's the old software sales model, the latest office comes in two versions, Office 2013 and Office 365. 365 is a pay yearly subscription deal. Adobe are doing it with the CS6 suite, either pay a chunk up front or pay monthly. Google do it with Google Apps. Don't pay and you lose access to edit in any application.

As you say, you can still buy Office, Adobe, etc. outright. Or download Open Office (no credit card/itunes gift cards required).

You have to pay for a Windows upgrade, and when XP goes off support next year, you can pay Microsoft for custom support to keep using it but it's not cheap starting at $50,000 for one PC.

No you don't. I have an Xbox, which is no longer supported by Microsoft. I still use it regularly. Nobody is going to stop you using XP.

But they DO come with restrictions, the fact they are off is no different to any computer. As has been mentioned you don't need to put a card on file with Apple, you could use a iTunes voucher, Apple has provided the tools, but they can't force people to use them.

But I don't want to buy an iTunes voucher.

gjchester

thelawnet wrote: »

Well not strictly true. My friend has an iphone, and he wants to use the free Facebook app, but it doesn't work because he needs to update it. He can't update it because in order to update it he must enter financial details, which he is unwilling to do.

He also can't install any new free apps because of the same issue.

Sorry but Apple seem to disagree with you.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2534

thelawnet wrote: »

You can get free software.

And this is different to what people have already said how? Computers have shareware/donation ware and in app purchases just like Apple. The only difference is Apple integrated the payment system into the OS, not relying on a 3rd party.

Look at the World of Tanks or World of Warcraft games as just two examples, they rely on you using real money for in app purchases to get far in either game.

thelawnet wrote: »

No you don't. I have an Xbox, which is no longer supported by Microsoft. I still use it regularly. Nobody is going to stop you using XP.

True, so do I, but the trays broken (I use it with XBMC). if I wanted to play an Xbox game I'm stuffed, Microsoft won't provide the support to keep it working. No doubt I can source the parts locally and do it my self, but in the case of XP the antivirus support will cease as will patching making it a security mess.

thelawnet

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Pointless discussion if you are going to resort to insults, plenty of people with children feel the same as I. You DO NOT need to add a credit card nor is the fifteen minutes relevant if you switch OFF in app purchases which AGAIN is in the same part of the Restrictions menu as the parental controls.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4406667

Yes but why is it on in the first place?

I don't understand why you are encouraging people to make their devices less convenient by turning on the pass code (which I can understand the reasoning behind), but you are then saying that it's a major breach of your rights to have the re-enter password option OFF by default.

Customers buying an ipad are not told that there is a 15-minute window (well maybe in among 300 pages of small print). You buy an app, you enter your password, then the next day you buy another app, again you enter your password, you have no reason to believe that someone could borrow your iPad within the next 15 minutes and run up thousands of pounds in purchases without your consent.

It is far from obvious that this occurs, there's no option to change it on itunes setting page; restrictions should be a separate settings menu, but it isn't, and to turn it on, you have to set another password, which you might not want to do.

rockin_plumber

thelawnet wrote: »

"To create an Apple Id, you must provide credit card, gift card, or gift certificate information."

It is possible to create an ID using a gift card, which you could buy with cash or whatever, but if you purchase an iPad it would be unusable until you either enter your credit card details (instantaneous) or buy a gift card.

If you do not wish to spend money on apps, then you have a problem because the gift card is non-refundable.

You do not need any credit card, bank details or iTunes card to create an apple ID.
We have one main ID which is topped up with iTunes cards, which all three of us use for APPS.
Before we started using paid for apps all free apps were available on this account without any form of funding.
Then we each have our own ID for FaceTime and iMessage which have never seen any form of money on them.

If you are spending £350 or more on a tablet, another £15 on a voucher really wouldn't be a hardship for full use of your apple device.

Which I'm sure if you were spending is amount of money you would have done your research before buying.

gjchester

thelawnet wrote: »

It is far from obvious that this occurs, there's no option to change it on itunes setting page; restrictions should be a separate settings menu, but it isn't, and to turn it on, you have to set another password, which you might not want to do.

There ARE lots of things not mentioned, but you can't highlight them all without producing a 300 page book people will not read. What would you highlight? What you want may not be the same as what a business person wants and its not practical to produce a manual tailored to each buyers needs.

The timeout setting is on the device not just iTunes, as it applies across the device, and it is on it's own page under Settings / General/Restrictions.

It also allows you to turn off in app purchases as well as restrict the app so you can bar the device from downloading anything that's not age appropriate without a PIN.

If you don't set a pin on the restrictions section its not really a restriction as little Jonny can disabling it because he wants to download something.

thelawnet

gjchester wrote: »

Sorry but Apple seem to disagree with you.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2534

Ok, I just checked it is possible, but only if you create the ID directly when installing a free app.

When I tried a couple of weeks ago to create the Apple account it didn't give me the free option, but I think I probably tried creating it from the Settings/Itune Store page.

I told my friend that it wasn't possible to create an account without a credit card, because I was not given the 'no payment method' option when I helped him create his account, because I did it from the wrong place. It looks like it is actually possible, it's just that Apple make it difficult to do so, because they want people to enter their credit card details BEFORE they have decided they want to buy something.

And this is different to what people have already said how? Computers have shareware/donation ware and in app purchases just like Apple. The only difference is Apple integrated the payment system into the OS, not relying on a 3rd party.

I used to have a Windows Mobile, you could buy software in that, but it wasn't part of the workflow when you setup the phone to take everyone's credit card detail. Therefore when I lent it to my son to play Solitaire there wasn't any potential issue of him buying software because my card details weren't in there.

By taking people's card details upfront, Apple should take reasonable steps to ensure that the purchases are made by the owner of the card and not any third parties, because it's obvious and hindsight, and well-publicised in retrospect, that many purchases are not being made by the authorised card holder.

True, so do I, but the trays broken (I use it with XBMC). if I wanted to play an Xbox game I'm stuffed, Microsoft won't provide the support to keep it working. No doubt I can source the parts locally and do it my self, but in the case of XP the antivirus support will cease as will patching making it a security mess.

My Xbox is also running XBMC with a broken tray. XP is perfectly secure behind a firewall with Java disabled.