Daughter 11 wants to go on a Christian camp

zaxdog

Having had a look on the website I wouldn't allow anyone under the age of 18 near this lot!

Nothing wrong with exposure to Christianity as long as she is also exposed to other religions: Judaism, Islam, Sikhism, Wicca, Buddhism to name a few :j

claire16c

duchy wrote: »

To be fair at 16-18 a lot of friendship groups ebb and flow as people broaden their horizons and move on though. My best friend at fourteen was someone I felt friendly towards but no longer close by the age of 16/17 as we'd just gone in different directions in life and attitudes.

Did they turn into a different person in the space of one week & alter all their interests and start acting differently & suddenly becoming very religious though?

I think that's rather different! There are plenty of people who my relationship changed with over the years and that's totally natural but I promise you this was not the same thing.

I'm not religious but I'd let my child go to a camp if it was focused on activities but perhaps had a link to a church. SS is not like that at all.

DJMschine

Hello,
Im the OPs other half.

I don't have any problem with my daughter going away on school trips etc, and I wouldn't have an issue with her going on a more traditional Christian camp if that's what she really wanted to do.

However, this church is very "Americanized" for want of a better expression, and they are VERY coercive.

They do the "talking in tongues" where literally they roll around the church babbling away believing that the spirit of God has entered them, they do the laying on of hands to feel the spirit enter them, then fall down, etc, and to me it's actually quite dangerous and not the sort of environment for a young child who will be quite impressionable to be exposed to.

I don't mind her going for 1 hour per week to the youth group, they do some bible stuff for 1/2 hour and play games for the rest, but 7 x 24 hours solid exposure away from any other influence is I think far too much.

I went at the wifes request to the Alpha course the church do, and I have to say that it is staggering the amount of psychologically manipulative pressure that they put on you from the minute you walk through the door.

The impression I get of this kind of church course and this kind of youth camp is that it's nothing to with religion or the good of the individual, but more to do with the indoctrination of young, impressionable, or vulnerable people into their ranks.

It's not because it's Christian or religion that I object to, it's the form of Christianity that I have a problem with.

It's like a high pressure sales pitch and I don't think it's right to expose my daughter to it or to the people who run it.

aliasojo

I initially started off thinking I wouldn't have a problem with my daughter going BUT after reading the SS website, I've changed my mind and feel this wouldn't be the type of camp I'd be happy for her to go to at this age.

A typical day involves attending 3 seminars, it seems much more intensive than the 'usual' Church camps. There doesn't appear to be any activities as such, it mainly revolves round cafes and gigs.

I wouldn't stop her going to a regular Church camp but I'm with your husband with regards to this specific one.

Edit: To be fair to SS, they do clearly state these camps are mainly for Christians (although anyone can go) so it's not unreasonable for their activities to centre on religious stuff.

Mojisola

DJMschine wrote: »

However, this church is very "Americanized" for want of a better expression, and they are VERY coercive.

Having known people who had been on ordinary camps which weren't much different to Guides or Scouts camps, I thought you were over-reacting but that website has put me right off the group.

I would be concerned at sending one of my children away with them.

Birdie85

Like some of the other posters, I went on these church camps with my youth group and had a great time without coming home brainwashed. The only reason I joined youth group in the first place was for the weekends away with my friends! IME, there was a bit of prayer in the morning (nothing too OTT; I went to a CofE school with prayers twice daily anyway so was quite used to spouting them off without thinking about it so this didn't feel any different) and a bit of worship after dinner which we generally switched off for/tried to escape from.

For the record, the church camps that I went on were CofE and they were essentially a handful of local youth groups getting together at an outdoor activity centre so it wasn't really intense; there were some religious kids who were there for the whole Christian experience, but us non-believers were given the option to skip bible study and run around the obstacle course.

I *was* thinking that your DH is overreacting, but now seeing that this camp is not like the kind of thing I went on then I think he might be right to have doubts. There's nothing particularly wrong with children finding religion, but I think that they need to be given both sides of the argument and come to their own decision over time. Having it forced on them in an intense fashion for a week is not the best way for this to happen IMO!

Claire, I knew kids at school who'd go away to camps like this and would come back totally different too. We called them the 'God Squad', it was scary who much these kids would change over such a short space of time and they did tend to turn their backs on their old non-believer friends simply because they didn't go to church with them. It always seemed to be the New Age Baptists too (in our area at least)... not sure if that's because it was a 'cool' church since the minister was all long-haired and 'Hey, call me Dave!' and played the guitar :cool: or if their powers of persuasion are greater than other churches?

Suki, by all means allow your DD to go on Christian camps, just maybe a nice CofE one instead.

heretolearn_2

I would not let her go unless I also believed in the messages the church teaches.

There are church camps and church camps.

some are pretty normal children's camps that happen to be run by churches, and probably include a small amount of prayer/bible study/worship, alongside lots of activities and trips. the purpose is to have a good time, give children the chance to try new things and learn to be a bit independent, in a Christian environment. I would have no qualms about a child attending those, whatever their family's beliefs.

Some are religious camps, where the whole purpose is religion, teaching and converting the children, their spiritual development in line with the church's beliefs. Any other activities are secondary. This is one of those camps. If it's your church, and your beliefs, fine. As it isn't, I would not let my child go. I deal professionally with a lot of these churches and while they are usually nice people, some are really not, and in any case I always get a few uncomfortable moments about what they teach. It is nothing like CofE or Catholic or mainstream church. It's extremely intense. They will teach against homosexuality. Strongly. They also teach that women are subordinate to men; and justify that biblically. Women are usually 'unclean' during their period and after having a baby and have to go through a purification before they return to church. All of this is more like Christianity from 500 years ago than anything you could imagine if you've only experience mainstream contemporary churches.
They do the whole speaking in tongues thing that personally I don't believe for one minute, and a lot of the church members I've spoken to don't really believe it either but there's a lot of pressure put on them to be 'receiving the spirit' or there's something wrong with them, so they fake it. And suspect everyone else is faking it too. They can be very strange indeed these churches - that's all only the tip of the iceberg on some of the teachings I've heard. Sometimes I've been in those services with everyone yelling and screaming - literally screaming their heads off - and going into trances and rolling on the floor and jerking around, falling over etc, and it still freaks the whatsit out of me, an adult, who's used to it.
There's no way I would risk exposing a young child to that alone, unless I wanted them to grow up in that church's beliefs.

aliasojo

You changed your mind now OP?

tyllwyd

I'm another vote against the camp - if you are trusting your DD to the care of others, then it ought to be a group that you trust and respect. Sending her off and crossing your fingers that she will be able to avoid being influenced by the people running the camp - when the basic purpose behind the camp is to promote a certain way of thinking - seems crazy to me.

claire16c

Birdie yes it's baptist I think.

I didn't even realise they did the speaking in tongues thing but you only need to watch Borat to see people fake that! I certainly wouldn't want my kid around that. And yes the sermons are often focused on things like no sex before marriage, homosexuality etc.

Maybe the younger ones might get different topics but even if she's not influenced she might just be bored silly.

Americanised is the right word because I'm pretty sure that branch of churches was developed in the US- the vineyard ones.