Daughter 11 wants to go on a Christian camp

skintchick

peachyprice wrote: »

I don't think any parent would be scared of their child becoming christian if it were of their own free will, however, any parent should be scared of their child being pressured into becoming a christian due to a recruitment drive from an over-zealous group.

I'm sure you wouldn't be scared of your daughter becoming an atheist if that what she chose of her own free will and understanding and that is what she believed in her own heart but would be furious if she chose that path due to pressure from an atheist group.

Furious is a strong word. I don't think I'd be furious.

Actually all I can think is that I'd be disappointed. But I'd leave it with God, and pray that she came to have a relationship with him.

I certainly wouldn't feel anything like most of posters on here do about Soul Survivor!

In fact, considering how atheist our culture is, my DD effectively goes to an atheist camp every day but I am definitely not foaming at the mouth about it.

All this high emotion about an evangelist Christian event has me bemused to be honest.

But I do have to say I would not call Soul Survivor a camp, like the camps I went on as a teenager. It is definitely "church done big" and very much about teaching God's word, praying and experiencing God in a real way.

That is different to a camp, IMO.

suki1001

stsarina wrote: »

I'm a Christian (C of E), I went to Soul Survivor when I was 16 - and I absolutely think you're doing the right thing by not letting your daughter go. I wouldn't let my DD go when she reached the age I was when I went, let alone only 11 years old. It was an incredibly intense experience, and though I loved the social aspect and seeing the Christian bands, the seminars were very full-on. There was one in particular about 'healing', which I found to be both upsetting and intimidating to see people claiming the spirit had entered and healed them while we watched, and the leader was (in my opinion) very aggressive in 'encouraging' us to open up and let the spirit enter us.

There's certainly a time and place for learning about religion in a balanced way, and if your daughter believes in her faith then by all means encourage it, but not like this. Stand firm on this one, OP.

Thank you very much for your post. This is what I was worried about and I'm worried she would feel very co-erced into feeling certain things.

I think she feels really disapointed mainly because there's she gets on with the youth leaders. It's very difficult for her to understand why we would object.

I have promised her we will do something else - maybe go away as an alternative, that seemed to help.

suki1001

skintchick wrote: »

Furious is a strong word. I don't think I'd be furious.

Actually all I can think is that I'd be disappointed. But I'd leave it with God, and pray that she came to have a relationship with him.

I certainly wouldn't feel anything like most of posters on here do about Soul Survivor!

In fact, considering how atheist our culture is, my DD effectively goes to an atheist camp every day but I am definitely not foaming at the mouth about it.

All this high emotion about an evangelist Christian event has me bemused to be honest.

But I do have to say I would not call Soul Survivor a camp, like the camps I went on as a teenager. It is definitely "church done big" and very much about teaching God's word, praying and experiencing God in a real way.

That is different to a camp, IMO.

You're obviously more comfortable about it than I am. I'm not sure whether I would describe it as experiencing God in a big way. Would you agree if it was something similar done by Muslims?

I don't think you can compare everyday life to Soul Survivor, because in everyday life people are free to choose what they believe. You certainly don't get made to sit in sessions that lecture on why we should lead aethiest lives or forced to believe there is nothing out there. We are given a choice to follow any religion we choose, or not. In everyday life you can bring as much religion into it as you want to, rather than being pressured into it.

skintchick

suki1001 wrote: »

You're obviously more comfortable about it than I am. I'm not sure whether I would describe it as experiencing God in a big way. Would you agree if it was something similar done by Muslims?

I don't think you can compare everyday life to Soul Survivor, because in everyday life people are free to choose what they believe. You certainly don't get made to sit in sessions that lecture on why we should lead aethiest lives or forced to believe there is nothing out there. We are given a choice to follow any religion we choose, or not. In everyday life you can bring as much religion into it as you want to, rather than being pressured into it.

Actually, when you live in a culture that is all about atheism, it is exactly like being in a daily lecture, only far more subtle (as you testify by not even realising it).

We are surrounded by constant messages: buy more, you need this, be thin, look beautiful, be sexually available, have loads of money, have a big house, have a fancy car, sleep with whoever you like whenever you like, do what makes you happy, look after number one ...

It is a constant, sly pressure which goes against the teachings of pretty much all religions.

And yes I would describe a muslim conference in the same way. It is about experiencing God, in His many forms, in a very intense way.

Brighton_belle

skintchick wrote: »

We are surrounded by constant messages: buy more, you need this, be thin, look beautiful, be sexually available, have loads of money, have a big house, have a fancy car, sleep with whoever you like whenever you like, do what makes you happy, look after number one ...

But as a humanist, I and many others are also bombarded by these messages too we are not necessarily happy about it either. It's not a case of if you are not a christian, you are therefore into all the above an think it's a marvelous alternative.

I understand your bemusement re the SS reaction. Indeed I know some lovely people who have a great time there and they are not remotely weird, nor cultish.
But your experience of your church life has been overall very positive and that's great. Some leave these churches damaged, normally overwhelmed by a few too many people who love 'authority' over others who are not sensitive to indivduals needs and if your are a long term single woman (of whom there are a dispropottionately high number), the lonliness and isolation can be much much worse.

skintchick

Brighton_belle wrote: »

But as a humanist, I and many others are also bombarded by these messages too we are not necessarily happy about it either. It's not a case of if you are not a christian, you are therefore into all the above an think it's a marvelous alternative.

I understand your bemusement re the SS reaction. Indeed I know some lovely people who have a great time there and they are not remotely weird, nor cultish.
But your experience of your church life has been overall very positive and that's great. Some leave these churches damaged, normally overwhelmed by a few too many people who love 'authority' over others who are not sensitive to indivduals needs and if your are a long term single woman (of whom there are a dispropottionately high number), the lonliness and isolation can be much much worse.

I wasn't saying everyone lives like that! Just that those are the constant messages of the culture we live in. There's no such thing as neutral, that was my point.

And I was single for a decade, so I get that side of it, but still my life with God has been infinitely richer and better than any life without Him. If all people in churches actually listened to God, then no-one would leaveany church damaged in any way. Sadly, we are all human and make mistakes, even Christians.

suki1001

skintchick wrote: »

Actually, when you live in a culture that is all about atheism, it is exactly like being in a daily lecture, only far more subtle (as you testify by not even realising it).

We are surrounded by constant messages: buy more, you need this, be thin, look beautiful, be sexually available, have loads of money, have a big house, have a fancy car, sleep with whoever you like whenever you like, do what makes you happy, look after number one ...

It is a constant, sly pressure which goes against the teachings of pretty much all religions.

And yes I would describe a muslim conference in the same way. It is about experiencing God, in His many forms, in a very intense way.

That's not about aethism though, that's about consumerism. You can be an aethiest and still disagree with those principles. You may think aethism encourages this, but if you look at how much money and property the church owns then it's a bit pot, kettle, black scenario. Then lets remember how much hate religion can bring into the world too.

If you think you can only teach people about vitues by way of religion - you are very much mistaken, because I don't believe for one moment that my prinicples would be any different if I followed a religion or had a faith. I don't subscribe to these things you are suggesting aethiests succumb to. It's not an either or scenario - and no it's not the same at all. It is manipulation of the worst kind. It means if my dd comes back and says - I am a fully fledged Chirstian, that she won't have actually formed her own opinion, she will have been more or less forced.

Perhaps you think I haven't seen the light, but if you think that because I don't follow a religion, that that means I agree with promiscuity or worshipping the body beautiful then you'd be mistaken. The fact is most practising Christians I know are the most materialistic.

We've already seen one example where someone felt co-erced and you think that's okay?

My point still stands. I can choose not to read the daily mail, or watch television, I can choose to be nice to people and lead a good life, because I don't like to lead a life that depends on consumerism and fakeness. You don't need a god to do that.

peachyprice

skintchick wrote: »

We are surrounded by constant messages: buy more, you need this, be thin, look beautiful, be sexually available, have loads of money, have a big house, have a fancy car, sleep with whoever you like whenever you like, do what makes you happy, look after number one ...

That has nothing to do with religion, there are plenty of 'good christians' who aspire to the very lifestyle you are describing that do not believe it is against gods wishes.


Just the same as there are plenty of atheists who despise such consumerism and choose a simple life, without the need for belief in any god. The two are not mutually exclusive.

skintchick

skintchick wrote: »

I wasn't saying everyone lives like that! Just that those are the constant messages of the culture we live in. There's no such thing as neutral, that was my point.

Just quoting myself as some of you seem to have missed this bit.

suki1001

skintchick wrote: »

Just quoting myself as some of you seem to have missed this bit.

No we didn't.