Toggle Mobile for abroad? What about in the UK?

grumbler

redux wrote: »

Normally if you port a number, the tariff is that of the destination network not the number.

Can you quote some tariff saying this?
Normally tariffs exclude blocks of numbers, not networks.
And I recall reports that normal numbers ported to lyca were treated like regular UK mobile numbers when calling them.

You cannot port a UK mobile number to a truly foreign network, can you?

Lyca is just a part of the mess created by our beloved Ofcom.

NFH

grumbler wrote: »

Normally tariffs exclude blocks of numbers, not networks.
And I recall reports that normal numbers ported to lyca were treated like regular UK mobile numbers when calling them.

This is true in many cases, but I'm sure that if you ported a number from T-Mobile to Lycamobile and then someone called you from a T-Mobile number, T-Mobile's billing system would recognise that it was no longer on T-Mobile and would surcharge for the call. The same would apply to other networks which include unlimited minutes to call other networks on the same network.

I believe that Lycamobile's termination rate is around double that of the mainstream UK mobile networks.

redux

grumbler wrote: »

Can you quote some tariff saying this?
Normally tariffs exclude blocks of numbers, not networks.
And I recall reports that normal numbers ported to lyca were treated like regular UK mobile numbers when calling them.

You cannot port a UK mobile number to a truly foreign network, can you?

Lyca is just a part of the mess created by our beloved Ofcom.

The first mobile contract I had included some calls to Orange and landlines. On one occasion I queried the charge for one call which appeared to be an Orange prefix; they told me it had been ported to Vodafone.

If you can find some cases where the charge is as per the number called, that might help some people.

I'm sure I didn't intend to give the slightest hint about porting to foreign networks, so I'm not sure where you picked that up.

Ofcom does not design retail tariffs. Early contracts did not include calls to other networks in their bundles, and the networks themselves developed those which did. So Ofcom cannot and does not command them to include certain calls in their minutes, nor how many minutes there will be.

If you want to dispute T-mobile's (or now presumably EE's) sanctions against Lyca numbers, the argument is with that company not Lyca and not Ofcom.

NFH

redux wrote: »

Ofcom does not design retail tariffs. Early contracts did not include calls to other networks in their bundles, and the networks themselves developed those which did.

Ofcom does have a responsibility to ensure that consumers can predict the cost of a call before making it. Before number portability, this was always possible through the mobile prefix. Each called network has a different wholesale termination rate, which drives the retail price paid by the caller. Ofcom's failure was that, when it introduced number portability, it did not implement any system at all to identify whether a number had been ported hence attracting a potentially higher termination rate. In Ireland for example, callers hear a tone before their call is connected to indicate that the called number belongs to another network. The Irish found a way; why couldn't Ofcom?

grumbler

redux wrote: »

The first mobile contract I had included some calls to Orange and landlines. On one occasion I queried the charge for one call which appeared to be an Orange prefix; they told me it had been ported to Vodafone.

Prefixes are meaningless nowadays when porting is so common.

If you can find some cases where the charge is as per the number called, that might help some people.

I don't quite understand what you mean, but for all tariffs I know charges depend on the first digits of the number. Numbers that are not included or are charged differently are clearly stated, e.g. 070, 08, 09, 074182 etc. E.g. T-mobile: Non-inclusive 07 mobile numbers customers after 1st February 2012

I'm sure I didn't intend to give the slightest hint about porting to foreign networks, so I'm not sure where you picked that up.

Yes, but when you call a mobile number starting with 07 (and not listed in excluded numbers in the tariff) you are not supposed to know what network it is on. By default it's a UK mobile number and your network has absolutely no grounds for charging you differently. The charges for all UK destination networks are the same, except probably the same network that you are calling from.

Ofcom does not design retail tariffs. Early contracts did not include calls to other networks in their bundles, and the networks themselves developed those which did. So Ofcom cannot and does not command them to include certain calls in their minutes, nor how many minutes there will be.

However, it is Ofcom that created this unique mess with mobile numbers resulting in some numbers looking like normal UK numbers being charged like foreign numbers. And the only way to know this is by checking some very complex tables: Premium Rate Mobile Telephone Numbers

If you want to dispute T-mobile's (or now presumably EE's) sanctions against Lyca numbers, the argument is with that company not Lyca and not Ofcom.

I don't want to dispute the charges. I just have reasons to be unhappy with the mess with numbers created by Ofcom. It was in their powers to assign specific prefix numbers (e.g., say, 0711) for Channel islands and prohibit porting regular UK numbers over there (and vice versa).

NFH

grumbler wrote: »

It was in their powers to assign specific prefix numbers (e.g., say, 0711) for Channel islands and prohibit porting regular UK numbers over there (and vice versa).

Is it really possible to port a UK mobile number to a Channel Islands or Isle of Man operator?

grumbler

I can be wrong, but I though it's where Lyca was formally located.

NFH

grumbler wrote: »

I can be wrong, but I though it's where Lyca was formally located.

No, they're based on South Quay next to Canary Wharf. It is indeed unusual for you to be wrong.

grumbler

I remember reading that the numbers Lyca use for their sim-cards had something to do with Jersey.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=2340493

redux

grumbler wrote: »

I remember reading that the numbers Lyca use for their sim-cards had something to do with Jersey.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....php?t=2340493

We aren't disputing that you remember something about this was posted here, but it is factually untrue.

If T-mobile want to continue telling their customers that Lycamobile is not a UK network, or one of them mistakenly says it's Jersey, then those customers should complain about being misled. But unfortunately it seems that even that won't make T-mobile include the numbers.

Unfortunately this issue seems to have become larger than the rest of the discussion of this product, which is unfortunate, as it's certainly interesting. Maybe Lyca can gradually add more countries to those were Toggle can have a local ID, for instance Belgium and Italy might look like prospects as they also operate there.