Safe in our Hands

BobQ

Wookster wrote: »

It is astonishing but there isn't a body that takes complaints from hospitals. Hospitals have their own "customer services" departments.

What is more astonishing is that David Nicholson has still got a job in the NHS (he had oversight of the Mid-Staffs hospital in the 2000s).

Until there is accountability and heads role, no one will really believe that change is on the way.

http://www.ombudsman.org.uk/

You can complain to the Ombudsman, once you have exhausted the bureaucratic complaints process

I did this in the dark days of 1992 and was surprised by the thoroghness of its investigation, including identification falsification of hospital records.

BobQ

Generali wrote: »

During the 1987 election campaign, Mrs (now Lady) Thatcher claimed that the NHS is in our hands.

That was much derided by Labour and their apologists in future years.

Yes but she lied - it was not safe in her hands, she nearly ruined it.

Labour cannot be proud that these events happened on their watch. Even though they were pouring money in, it still relies on local managers doing their job.

BobQ

MacMickster wrote: »

A couple of years ago my father-in-law, who has since passed away, was admitted to hospital and we were appalled by the lack of cleanliness and basic nursing care in the ward that he was admitted to. Soiled pyjamas were left lying on the floor next to his bed. Bloodstaines sheets remained on the bed. He had a fall trying to get to the toilet alone as no nurses came when he rang for assistance. Needless to say a complaint was made.

He was released from hospital, but readmitted some weeks later, to a different ward within the same hospital. The care that all the patients on that ward received couldn't have been more different.We never saw a nurse sitting or standing still. They were happy to talk to us about our father-in-law, but if the ward sister came into sight they would make their excuses immediately and get on with their work.

To our minds, the difference between the two wards was the expectations of standards between the people charged with running them.

I have had a similar experience. I think that part of problem lies in a business model used. Npbody likes to see waste and inefficiency so hospital managers see their mission as to drive down costs and in the NHS have compartmentalised so many roles that need to come together to serve the patient. Many are now covered by outsourced services providing relatively uncommitted individuals (be they cleaners or nurses) with a very blinkered view of their jobs. Cleaners clean, have no scope to assist a patient to reach a food tray, or pour some water. Caterers deliver food, but are not interested in whether the patient can open the package etc. Some nurses see their role as more technical and dislike the more menial things. This works well when the demands and needs of the patients in a ward fall neatly into the planned business model or below it. But add an above average number of demanding patients (needing additional attention)and the services are stretched.

The problem is largely with the management and culture it creates.

Generali

BobQ wrote: »

The problem is largely with the management and culture it creates.

I agree with a caveat: people are responsible for their own actions. The 'Camp Commandant Defense' I was just following orders doesn't wash. Management create a culture but professionals (members of actual professions like doctors, nurses and accountants) are taught very precisely what the right thing is to do and membership of a profession is in part contingent on following the professional course of action.

Got a child just out of surgery? Alarms keep going off to warn you that the child is dying. What does an NHS nurse do? Turn off the alarm of course!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9859681/Hospital-sued-over-children-left-neglected-and-dying-on-wards.html

StevieJ

Generali wrote: »

I agree with a caveat: people are responsible for their own actions. The 'Camp Commandant Defense' I was just following orders doesn't wash. Management create a culture but professionals (members of actual professions like doctors, nurses and accountants) are taught very precisely what the right thing is to do and membership of a profession is in part contingent on following the professional course of action.

Got a child just out of surgery? Alarms keep going off to warn you that the child is dying. What does an NHS nurse do? Turn off the alarm of course!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9859681/Hospital-sued-over-children-left-neglected-and-dying-on-wards.html

So when do we start employing enough skilled nurses to cope with the workload?

homelessskilledworker

The only thing I am going to risk saying about our NHS is that the overwhelming majority who come into the medical/caring side are good decent people who want to care for their patients.

I am not sure when it happened, but accountants and marketing types took over and it has never been the same since. One of my ex's best friends had a marketing background and was working in the NHS, she was on £65k then(few years ago now), she was your real clipboard and Hitler in knickers type.

I know quite a few people in the medical side of the NHS who are at their wits end, with many of them leaving.

It seems to be push push push all the time, caring is secondary today. I think Derek(Ricky Gervais) gave a good account of what it is like these days with the episode last week when the money man turned uo with his power dressing clipboard assistant. I know it was not the NHS, but the feeling was the same.

Jennifer_Jane

I think I would like Eric Pickles as the responsible minister. He appears to be a bit of a "big beast" compared with Hunt who seems to have the right ideas, but appears a bit gentle.

Just been listening to the Sunday Politics and Pickles appears to have the respect, if not the affection, of some of our Northern Councils.

Anybody else agree?

homelessskilledworker

Jennifer_Jane wrote: »

I think I would like Eric Pickles as the responsible minister. He appears to be a bit of a "big beast" compared with Hunt who seems to have the right ideas, but appears a bit gentle.

Just been listening to the Sunday Politics and Pickles appears to have the respect, if not the affection, of some of our Northern Councils.

Anybody else agree?

No!!!

The only place your likely to see Pickles in a NHS setting will be when he is having his tripple bypass.

He is a terrible advert for prevention.

Jennifer_Jane

homelessskilledworker wrote: »

No!!!

The only place your likely to see Pickles in a NHS setting will be when he is having his tripple bypass.

He is a terrible advert for prevention.

LOL - well, you're right about that! But plenty of NHS workers are above optimum weight, or smoke, drink too much, etc.

PaulF81

Generali wrote: »

I agree with a caveat: people are responsible for their own actions. The 'Camp Commandant Defense' I was just following orders doesn't wash. Management create a culture but professionals (members of actual professions like doctors, nurses and accountants) are taught very precisely what the right thing is to do and membership of a profession is in part contingent on following the professional course of action.

Got a child just out of surgery? Alarms keep going off to warn you that the child is dying. What does an NHS nurse do? Turn off the alarm of course!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9859681/Hospital-sued-over-children-left-neglected-and-dying-on-wards.html

I would agree gen, unfortunately cultural norms are very difficult to go against. I know this is a sensitive subject, but if the standard has not been set from above, it's very easy for poor practice to set in. I saw it in my previous employment. It was fear of retribution from the highest levels that prevented me, and others, from "doing the right thing".

The medical profession shares many traits with my own, by self admission, not all are necessarily healthy.

How many on here denied outright that there would be a major correction in property price? How many didn't see the signs that the economy was being fuelled by debt and was due a major correction? Easy to go along with the Mind control message that brown pushed out "no more boom and bust".