Supermarkets pull items off shelves over meat fears

antrobus

A._Badger wrote: »

If it can't be traced then of course it poses a risk.

Why, what risk does untraceable horsemeat pose to human health?

Just asking.

Given that we now know that Findus was selling 100% horse lasagne, courtesy of its French supplier, does this mean to say we should now expect queues outside the local A&E?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21375594

lemontart

The concerns here are 3 fold imho

Animal welfare - yes odd possible but how was the animal care for and did it meet its end humanely

Where did the animal come from - hardly farm assured as the label states on a lot of goods in uk

Labeling and getting what is says on the tin for so many reasons - in uk considered by many wrong to eat horse, in other countries not

That aside it is a way of cutting costs somewhere along the production line and increasing profits as the mountain of rules and regs regarding meat is a high cost to all

Celia

There are all manner of issues here both relating to honesty and transparency within the food / farming industry and also health issues.

This a point to note:

"
The FSA said: "We have no evidence to suggest that this is a food safety risk. However, the FSA has ordered Findus to test the lasagne for the veterinary drug phenylbutazone, or 'bute'.
"Animals treated with phenylbutazone are not allowed to enter the food chain as [the drug] may pose a risk to human health."

Lifeforms

phenylbutazone is the big issue, the meat has no traceability, like cows, or lamb does, so the horse could've been the high flyer racer dosed up with phenylbutazone on it's race day, then slaughtered and minced into Lasagne.

It appears to be a common practice/treatment for horses, and indeed phenylbutazone was/is used in treatment of humans for things like rheumatoid arthritis of which there were increased (fatal) occurrences of things like aplastic anemia.

I was reading this, which is American study based basically, but does cover in the first few paragraphs as to why it's not now allowed to be used by humans, and ergo should not be in the food chain.
http://www.horseprotection.it/docs/phenylbutazone.pdf

Also from wiki:

High doses of phenylbutazone may be considered a rules violation under some equestrian organizations, as the drug may remain in the bloodstream four to five days after administration.

The International Agency for Research on Cancer places it in Group 3; i.e., "not classifiable as to its carcinogenicity to humans".

Use in horses is limited to those not intended for food. Metabolites of phenylbutazone can cause aplastic anaemia in humans.[7][8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylbutazone#Side_effects_and_disadvantages

However it is interesting reading the following paragraph on wiki "Investigations into Potential Carcinogenicity" as it seems mixed results and comes up with

Kirkland and Fowler (2010) furthermore explained that the theoretical carcinogenic effects of phenylbutazone in humans cannot be studied because patients prescribed the drug were given doses far below the level any effect may become apparent (<1 mM).[12]

and

The World Health Organisation's International Agency For Research On Cancer (IARC) stated in 1987 that there was inadequate evidence for a carcinogenic effect in humans.[14]

Note the 1987 date on that. But this is for people taking it as a drug, rather than unknown amounts possibly passed on to humans via consumption of potentially affected meat.

gailey_2

A._Badger wrote: »

[QUOTE=Mids_Costcutter;59208089]Chevalburger, good one Edwardia!

Seriously though, what is happening to all this (stlll healthy) food that's being pulled off supermarket shelves? Surely it shouldn't go to waste?

The point is that we don't know whether it's safe to eat and, terrifyingly, neither does the food industry.

The latest news is that French-produced Findus lasagne might be up to 100 per cent horsemeat and has been removed from shelves.

If heads don't roll for this, there will have been a serious miscarriage of justice. Why are we paying for a Foods Standard Agency and all the rest of the, clearly useless, government apparatus?[/QUOTE]


Agree feel quite angry about it all:mad:

Beyond the jokes and puns

And whats wrong with horse meat its they eat it in europe.

We have no idea how horse was raise
where it came from
if it was diseased
If it was high on drugs that linked to cancer in humans.

In all honesty we dont even know duration of how long its accidentally been in food chain? I suspect year and wasent even our fsa that found out.

All very well saying strict testing -too late
They got rid contract with silvercrest yet happy to deal with their sister companies?

We were lied to
food was wrongly labelled.
was probably result of criminal activity this much horse dident get into food chain by accident.

In case of france-againyes they eat cheval but I imagine they know where there hore is sourced from and was bred for consumption not the nackers yard for glue.

We potentially eating meat that was deemed not fit for human consumption.

I find it so sad how accepting everyone is of it from smug people on fb saying

well its value what do you expect!-Do low income shoppers not deserve better?

Or do we ever really know what we eating? That thats what happened consumers get duped all time thats way of the world we so blase about it all.

I like to think if dog was found or cat people be less nonchalent?

They discussed it on Wright stuff phone in today

It was very sad that price is bottom line and we legally sold horse burgers at 8 for 99p then customers would chose to buy it as thats all their budget allows.


That fresh foods always more expensive than cooking from scratch which I thinks a myth depends what you cook. A pack of mince and some onnions will probably make double amount of burgers that premade pack would? I have on occasion in past at peoples bbq ate burgers and once or wice last year brough some for kids now feel terrible and has made me much more strict and less trusting.

I think we become so far removed from whats on our plate.
The uk spends smallest percentage of income on food compared to other european countries.

I would ay from visits to other countries and seeing their shoos supermarkets uk much more reliant on convieniance foods..

We call ourselves a nation of animal lovers.

yet so many dont seem bothered about where it came from, how was it killed, did it have nice life?.

I remember hughs chicken out campaign and hayley and her value chickens at tesco and in end she did revert back to value price won out .

Hubby whinges about how my principles cost us more but last few years he came round to my idea of thinking. recently he seems to have gone off meat. Was in lidls and saw diced beef with uk tractor label on and he declined.

Im baffled after months now that they not got to end of it.
They were quite happy to start pointing finger at holland initailly.
I read article other day about warehoue northern ireland loads horse meat burgers found. In ireland their fsa has called in police but fail to see aht our fsa doig, if its so safe to eat why we advided to return to supermarket? They not being honest with us and the story gets worse its so widespread. Thankfully waitrose tested all theirs and they 100%beef so know where to shop in future.

Fire_Fox

Mids_Costcutter wrote: »

Chevalburger, good one Edwardia!

Seriously though, what is happening to all this (stlll healthy) food that's being pulled off supermarket shelves? Surely it shouldn't go to waste?

I've never seen any scientific studies indicating that Findus 'beef' lasagne or cheapo 'beef'burgers are healthy. IMO the British public would be better without this rubbish for sale. There is not enough veg in the chevalslop to count towards five a day nor enough dairy to count towards the recommended three servings a day. From Mysupermarket
"Pasta (20%) (Water, Durum Semolina, Dried Egg White), Water, Beef (16%), Tomato Puree, Tomatoes (10%), Reconstituted Skimmed Milk, Onions (3.5%), Red Leicester Cheese (2.5%), Mushrooms (2%), Modified Starch, Maltodextrin, Whipping Cream (1%), Wheatflour, Starch, Milk Proteins, Salt, Starch, Sugar, Vegetable Oil, Potassium Chloride, Garlic, Herbs, Flavourings (From Soya), Yeast Extract, Flavour Enhancer (Monosodium Glutamate), Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil, Spice Extracts (With Nutmeg), Pepper, Colour (Beta Carotene)."

jamesd

Lifeforms wrote: »

the meat has no traceability, like cows, or lamb

Horse meat does have traceability, particularly in the UK. The animals have to have a passport saying if they are intended for human consumption. If they are, that limits the medication that can be used and use of medication not rated for human consumption means that the human consumption rating is lost.

But not in the current cases, where there seems to have been no proper documentation of the use of horse meat.

antrobus wrote: »

Why, what risk does untraceable horsemeat pose to human health?

Lack of knowledge of history of the animal and whether the meat may contain things that aren't rated for meat for human consumption. If the usual food passport system was followed the only issue would be improper product descriptions and a trading standards issue based on the wrong description.

antrobus

jamesd wrote: »

.....Lack of knowledge of history of the animal and whether the meat may contain things that aren't rated for meat for human consumption....

Lack of knowledge of history of the animal only means that if the meat contains things that render it unfit for human consumption, then it's difficult to pin down who is responsible. That's why traceability is important in the food chain; when and if you find a problem, you can nail down who's fault it is, and get 'em to fix it.

jamesd wrote: »

.....
If the usual food passport system was followed the only issue would be improper product descriptions and a trading standards issue based on the wrong description.

Given that so far, the FSA and the FSAI have both pronounced that there haven't so far found anything that poses a risk to human health then that is the only issue that currently faces us. That's not to say they won't find something bad, somewhere, if they keep looking, but at the moment no one has found anything.

gailey_2

The horse probably not from uk, not killed in uk.
god knows where eastern europe we assume unless they brought it from further afeild then sold it to irish.

If was iported as beef then no theres no trace.
we still not been told where its from
whos responsible.

Daily politics raised interesting question,

Whos mostly likly to buy meat in bulk?

schools and hospitals. woder if they heval too hasent even been tested.

If so many retailers duped then chances are they been too.

Someone must have tipped off irish to even test in first place.

Its now affeceted several diffrent companies, retailers and 3countries.

Theres sadly more to come.

buzi

the real concern is that fsa only got wind of this because of tip off, they need a complete overhaul in their checking procedures