oh my life...... Light Bulb moment.

Magic_Sister

Oooh enjoy your date! Unfortunately I am stuck as much as I would love a relationship, my 20 yo DD has mental health issues, diagnosed for the last 6 years, and all my time/ energy goes in to supporting her. She would also not deal well with another facet in our lives so for the time being allhopes of romance are on hold. And I just get older so maybe never, but who knows?

I really hope you enjoy your date!! 😁😁💜💜

MiMi66

Hi Magpie and Magic Sister

Thanks for your messages, I had read them yesterday but was in a proverbial emotional hole and not able to string together thoughts. Awful
panic.

I am now wanting reassurance that my eyes won't explode or fall out if I keep crying.... seriously they feel like they are in my cheeks. I have been going around in mental and physical circles. My thoughts are intrusive and I have paced endlessly in my kitchen. I am worried about the emotional fall out on the kids though it hey seem mega robust and while not minimising the situation they are keen to help me keep perspective.

Sleep utterly rubbish but rather be Han right last night I read other people's threads and looked at Debt Free Diaries. Not 100% that is the right place for my thread, but have only read a few longer threads there. Interesting the way different people each to and deal with debt. Though if I do ask for my thread to be moved there how do I do this? How do I get hold of a moderator to move it?

Today's thoughts. I am in the train now to go to Physio and then sneak into training course (god knows what this says about my work ethic but I hope it is good) work is a therapy for me though. Absorbing and I'm good at it. And generally cannot spend money while doing it.

And then my date afterwards. A walk and coffee and then dinner. Fingers crossed. I really appreciate the thumbs up on this as I do feel very daft entertaining dating while I am in such a hole. It appears he is equally broke but it may be comforting to be with someone who is keen for me to keep up with them. (I am so guilty of that in the past) I shall let you all know how it goes! I feel a bit nauseaous with anxiety about dating as well as extremely nauseaous about lack of money and debt. I guess not ideal to bring any of this up on the first date, but when should I say something about being a self inflicted Poor Church Mouse (PCM)?


Thinking last night - exploring ideas and ways forward. I did the Step Change took and it seems we are right. Not IVA or Bankruptcy but they recommend a DMP and to consider selling up house. So I'm on the right track.

I did the expenses budget but want to revisit it when my head is clearer and I hopefully have slept. What I am wondering is that the tool came out with my having £620 to pay debt with. Currently I pay about £712 and end up short for monthly living costs as I need to recalibrate daily budgeting and spending habits. I think you are right Magpie, I don't trust myself that she these habits won't get me into trouble if I sell and rent and it's awful to think that after 24 years of mortgage repayments that I would not own something outright towards or not long after my pension and retirement or going part time kicks in.

So if a DMP would require me to pay the same or thereabouts as what I pay now at least I know I am doing what I can on the repayment front. I pay the minimum plus some on the cards - anywhere from 25-75% of the minimum payment except on one which I do just pay minimum on. If I keep that going the big challenge is stopping accruing debt. Stop all additional spending. To do this I need a small reserve behind me for emergencies. Then there's the job interview and impact of that outcome. And my blasted health though that feels hard to hang onto in importance right now. I just want to get back to work and see if I can pick up some overtime.

Lodger. - yes I want one. The college girl didn't reply but I had a brainwave last night. I live 5 mins drive or 20 mins walk from the hospital. I will go next week and ask facilities if I can put a notice in the pin board by the dining room to see if I can get a lodger who works at the hospital- either permanently or a student placement. And happily they will have been DSB checked (really don't want the hassle of an ax murderer moving in!). I would need a couple of repairs done to doors in the house (bathroom door doesn't close, dropped hinges or something and needs a latch) and my son's bedroom door is split from an over zealous attempt to dip strip the door to remove paint. And tidy and declutter to give prospective lodger a sense that there is space for them and that I am not the chaotic freak I feel I am right now. It looks like I could get 360-400 a month from renting g a room out and this would be emerg NYC money then debt repayment money.
I think (today at least this is the plan) that I will hold off formal DMO and keep my repayments as is (never missed or underpaid anyone) and do the house bits (need a cheap handy man) and get a ad up at the hospital and get self back to work. Occupational Health check next Friday. Whew.

I want to assure myself and you that would am not avoiding the DMP but if I can do a DMP like commitment and not incur and debt for six months I think I can do it by and large for 55 months (estimated pay off frame). I saw in some threads people avoiding paying their debt backbut I do want to pay mine back. I spent it and any spare money I have is not my own. One day it will be.

If I don't achieve this over the next 6 months I shall look again at house selling and renting or formal DMP. My son finished college in June 2018 so that fits well in terms of timing if we move in the early mid summer next year.

Now my mood. Very low. I know I sound like I can make a plan but the feelings of panic are overwhelming. My daughter, ever so tactfully, and knowing that I came off my antidepressants 3 months ago, wondered to me if I was maybe getting depressed again. I think that what has happened is that I am really feeling things in a way you don't when you are taking antidepressants. However it's a balancing act - true emotional experiences that keep you in touch with reality and taking action (debt - was I cushioned from the worry of it too much?) vs being rendered incapable through distress, crying and panicking, sleep loss and fear. I will see how my mood goes over the next 1-2 weeks and if still plummeting I will go back on them - a long term relationship for me -13 years of antidepressant treatment. I just have enjoyed being off them. Music and reading seems to come more to life when not cushioned. But I have been very tearful, dark and now sleep and appetite going - I think I already know the answer...)

Another thing maybe not to mention in the first date..... hopefully I'll come across as interestingly mysterious rather than secretive. ���� thank you for good wishes with it.

foxgloves

Hello Mimi,
Sorry to hear you are feeling so horrid. Panic & anxiety is so awful, isn't it? You find the same thoughts revolving in your head in a loop of worry & 'what if' and it makes everything feel worse. You do have some plans in there, though. That sounds like a potentially useful amount of money from having a lodger & what a good idea to try & get someone who works at the hospital. There's surely bound to be someone who would welcome affordable lodgings so close to their place or work. Hope you get a good response when you put up your notice, anyway. I've never suffered from depression, so I don't have experience of taking anti-depressants. I did have a couple of difficult years ages ago with generalised anxiety disorder, which needed a low dose of medication, so I do have some experience & understanding of how distressing it can feel to have the same thoughts crowding into your head & simply not to be able to shut off from that mental merry-go-round of chaos. My tactic now, when I am in stressful times (which I am now, but for different reasons) is to throw myself into all those elements of my life over which I DO have some degree of control..... at the moment, things like tightening the budget, really meal planning well & batch-cooking - that kind of thing, trying to eat as well as possible to keep myself well (& to control my weight, as I need a big surgery & am still heavier than I'd like to be for that). De-cluttering seems to help too.....just anything where I feel I have been in control of things rather than the stressful stuff (in my case, a very ill family member) controlling me. You always sound very sensible (& a lot more 'together' than you probably think!) and you will know all this already, but I wanted to leave a sympathetic message, as despite never having been clinically depressed, I certainly remember what that dreadful anxiety & panic attacks were like. I do hope you can find a lodger, as that would be such useful income. And amongst all of this, make just a little time each day to do something nice for yourself. Yesterday, (I know this is a truly titchy thing!), my best thing (apart from NOT starting the day with phone call to say dear family member collapsed & back in hospital again) was baking a sourdough loaf!! That sounds daft, doesn't it? I think it's because I'd wanted to learn how to do sourdough for ages, started a culture this year, & with Youtube, a book gifted to me by a friend & trial & error, I can now do it & despite all the stress & sadness around in my family at the moment, seeing that loaf (& I'm only talking Aldi flour here lol!) sitting on the cooling rack in all its golden crusty glory, just gave my spirits the lift they needed! Anyway, I'd like to wish you luck with your date......it might lead somewhere, it might not.......but why not just enjoy an evening out & tell yourself you're worth it! And fingers crossed there is a lovely lodger looking for a place just like yours & that there will soon be rent money landing regularly in your bank account.
Best Wishes,
F x

Magpie100

Hi MiMi,

Well done on posting even though you feel so low.

DMP – I think your suggestion to try and get your spending completely under control and sticking to a budget for six months before looking at starting one is excellent. You won’t be able to have any further credit whilst in it, and you MUST be able to live on your budget. This will take a change of mindset, and that won’t be an overnight process. But please, just because you are going to delay the actual process of a DMP for 6 months, don’t bury your head in the sand and keep spending. I’m not saying you would, but I do feel like this is crunch time for you. You currently do have some solutions, but any further increase in debt is really going to start reducing your options even further.

I think one of your big issues is one you have correctly identified – being over-optimistic about what you can pay off and leaving yourself short every month and then adding to the cards. Your budget (please post it here when you can) absolutely must be realistic. Remember, on a DMP most of the interest will be frozen (all of it, we hope) and you should start to see inroads in to paying off the capital. It is good that you have identified that there is still work to do in retraining your spending habits. You will need to refine your budget and spending over a period of a few months to see where the savings and pitfalls are.

Lodger – yes, looking for someone via your work is a fantastic idea! Axe murderers as lodgers are SUCH a pain – all those tools cluttering up the hallway and the bloodstains are a nightmare to get out of the soft furnishings. I don’t know where you live and if there is any call for it but a Monday-Friday lodger might also work well for you – someone who is around during the working week but not at weekends. I keep banging on about stabilising your situation, but I do think if you could get a lodger sorted and build a small emergency fund by the start of the new year you could then consider a DMP with confidence.

How you are feeling – I don’t know you, of course, and I am not a doctor. But your daughter, who does know you, sounds very wise. It know this is a horrible and overwhelming experience to go through, but perhaps one long-term good thing this enforced time away from the routine of work has made you confront the reality of your situation. I would never dissuade anyone from seeking medical help when it is needed, but my view is similar to yours in that I do think anti-depressants can have a cushioning and numbing effect. Only you can know of course where the balance lies on this front – so I agree with your plan to give yourself a couple more weeks. It might be when you get back to the routine of work you begin to feel a little more in control of things.

As for the date – why shouldn’t you entertain dating? You aren’t a pariah! You’re just in debt. Many people are. You aren’t defined by it. I agree it probably isn’t a subject for discussion on a first date, but if it does come up you could perhaps say that you are at an exciting point in your life where you are re-evaluating where you are living, your financial priorities, and putting a plan in place for the future. Which is true! As part of that plan, of course, you need to deal with your debt, but he doesn’t need to know the ins and outs right this minute. I also feel that saying something like that to yourself might help you realise that this is what this process is – a plan for your future financial wellbeing. Things may look bleak now, but you are doing everything you can (posting here, speaking to your mortgage provider, researching, thinking of ways to increase your income, looking at your budget, coming up with a plan with a timescale) to reassess things and improve for the future. How much worse it would be to say ‘I’m in XX amount of debt, and have no idea what I’m going to do about it.’ But that isn’t you!

I realise the above might make me sound like some crazed new age positive thinking lunatic (I AM NOT), but I do think it would perhaps help with the panic and anxiety if you can reframe things in this way. And you aren't lying about your situation, either.

Let us know how you get on and good luck.

Magpie100

Narola1976

Hi Mimi, absolutely smashing advice you are getting here. Shall I add my two pence worth?

Firstly, breathe....you are doing absolutely everything you can. Worrying more cannot improve your circumstances but it can sap every bit of strength you have, strength you need to get through these dark days. Of course, its easier said than done...to not worry...can you think of things you can do that are relaxing, perhaps meditation if that is not too new age for you? I also think that sometimes we do need more help than we can give ourselves and so there is no shame in going back on the anti-depressants. Were they helpful before? They can't work miracles but if they can give you just a little bit of help to rebuild your internal resilience you will cope with things much better. As was said, focus on what is within your control. You can't change the debt and you can't make money magic out of thin air (I wish LOL) but you can do things that will improve your mental and physical strength. I often have sleepless nights, I lay awake worrying about my job...its high risk, and I am petrified I will make a mistake and it all comes crashing down. So if I know I am going to be awake, instead of fretting, I read, or I listen to my audio book. Reading always helped me escape when I was a child and it helps me now. Is there anything similar for you? A bath with candles? Music?

I think big decisions regarding the house must be made when you feel in full control and you are not being led by emotions. Speaking as someone who makes impulse decisions - did I mention I bought a car on the spur of the moment having taken mine in for a service - it was only 4 years old?? You have a lot of things going on and its easy to feel pulled in so many directions. But try not to tackle everything at once. One thing at a time.

I was thinking of your lodger idea...if you are 20 minutes walk from the hospital, in the meantime, do you have a driveway you can rent out. Here people rent their parking spaces or drive ways to people working at the hospital to avoid the horrendous car park charges. Have you also though of trying Air BnB while looking for a permanent resident. You still rent out the room but its usually for a few days or a weekend and they tend to just doss in your home as they are usually on holiday or working. My OH used it once when he had to work in London for a month. He was out the whole day, just came in to sleep, kept to himself. If I had a spare room I might have considered this, as also, if you want some space, you just don't rent it out. A lodger is more permanent. Its a little more risky but worth checking out as an interim measure.

I also want to suggest if I may you trial YNAB. I don't know if you have heard of it but they offer a 34 day free trial. The software itself and the app is amazing but what I really found fascinating was the 4 rules, because it is more than a budgeting tool. The concept for me about budgeting for my true expenses was revolutionary. And this resonates with the advice you have received about budgeting realistically so you are not leaving yourself short and then adding into the CC debt. I don't advocate you paying for the subscription especially as you have made good progress getting rid of them, but to me the benefits outweigh the downsides. I think the structure of something like this at least initially helps to bring order and calm. There is safety in routine, and boundaries sometimes. And even if you don't want to get the software, just watch the You Tube videos. Its really inspiring.

Good for you regarding the date...didn't I say when you least expect it! Have fun, you deserve a night out, to talk about things other than money. Speaking of which, do you spend any time with RL friends? Sometimes a chat over homemade coffee can also de-stress just a bit.

I hope I haven't come on too strong and if so, please feel to disregard every word. My intention is only to be supportive. I think you are doing marvelously and you a strong courageous lady. And you have kids that love and support you. Ooh just a though have you considered a gratitude journal...I have heard amazing things from people who were in the depth of despair and it really helped them, they started with I am alive, I have a comfy bed because they could not think of anything positive to say but that changed with time, not their circumstances but they change and their responses to those circumstances changed.

Any way, chin sup, smile and keep posting!

MiMi66

Hi Magpie, Foxgloves and Narola,

My message deleted again when I looked at something further up the thread - if I had more energy I would be very irritated - right now I just think - of course it deleted itself... Must start using Word to write in first.

thank you for a good sound advice you are all giving me - and it helps to have things reframed or options considered. I sleep a bit better last night 1- 6 when Lily cat woke me up, and then back to sleep til 8. My daughter and I are going to tackle the garage this morning. I am a bit less foggy brained.

So money or date feedback first?

Date - it went well, he was very kind and gentlemanly - good conversation and a chatterbox which was good as I am so out of practice with all that - it has been an age. But I am not sure about seeing him again - he seems a bit unreliable? No regular work (was a part-timeLearning support assistant but has left that last year for part-time gardening)and he has not had a relationship any longer than 18 months which seems a bit of a red flag in a 47 year old? I get the feeling he could whip of in a flash like a will-o-wisp. he was talking about a n offer he had to go an live for free in a Buddhist retreat in Spain and is likely to do that I think? He is currently living off his savings having sold a flat in London, and bought (outright I think) a lovely home here in Devon. So while he says he likes me, and that is a novelty for em, I am not sure whether he is right for me. I resisted spilling the beans about my situation and I took your advice Magpie and went with it was a time of change in my life, reevaluating everything and needing to look at how I was living etc etc at a mumbled pace - he was kind and did not ask any questions. It was lovely that he paid for dinner and tea when we first met though - I haven't had dinner bought for me for 14 years and even then when I was married I paid as my ex was very reluctant to get his wallet out - we didn't go out much though - young children, etc.
You must think I am an unsightly hag to not a have had the m,ale attention and flattery of having a meal paid for in all this time, but I am not a gargoyle. I am usually friendly and kind, bright and hard working, and not a gargoyle - is that what you meant Narola about a Gratitude Journal - how is that for a start? 'I am not a gargoyle.' :-) Seriously though I have thought of those things and done a vision board for things that please me - full of open spaces and animals. I must do one for financial stability and security and cash!

And so money - driveway idea is a good one - but I don't have a driveway - frustrating. I have a half pull in place which is a bit of a risk for my own vehicle really - juts out a bit.

Lodger - feeling good about trying this - have realised it might take me a bit of time to get sorted for it - making space for a lodger....but will pursue - that seems the most doable of all options right now. Monday to Friday sounds good to so we get out home space back - I wondered about taxation on this but have had a bit of a look and it seems you can earn up to £4800 a year doing it which is why so many are offering to pay £400 a month I guess?

I have worked out that if I return a few items that I have bought before coming to my senses (painful that - no wonder people avoid reality) - that I might be able to save full repayment onto the using cc (which I want to axe asap) to the tune of £148 and my son owes me £57 for something that I paid for for him on the card - so about £200 that I can keep as an emergency fund. hope so - a lot relies on the return of a pair of jeans I have worn but on their first day they stretched dreadfully - looking like baggy pants - and before I would have just put them in the drawer and maybe made shorts out of them next summer - but I am going to attempt the return today. Small local department store so not sure how they will respond.

I think you asked me Magpie about budgeting for Christmas - hmmmm - yes it is a derail moment. The kids and I have talked so they are well informed as to my reality which impacts on the Christmas tree stash - I am going to try and get overtime once I am back to work - and also try to save £150 per months in Nov and December - and if I can't - arghhhh - ask me closer to the time - I might sell stuff? or if I have a lodger that will help - but I will NOT use the CC. Home made presents might be the padding to make it seems more :-)

So off into the garage - and tidying and helping my daughter sort her things before she heads back to uni next Thursday - I am going to miss her!!! But I am up there next month as you know, late October ( apparently as is my date? - he wants to take me for Vietnamese in London? god in heavens - I have a romantic option!)

Wish me luck with my returns.

moneysavvy35

Hi Mimi66

I have just popped into this thread by accident. Im so sorry but I don't have much advise in terms of money saving. But I just want to say I have read some of your post and I feel nothing but admiration for you.

You have been open, honest & refreshing with your feelings, even when you are in your darkest moments you will come on & say how you are feeling - do you reliase how much strength that takes? You are much more resilient than you give yourself credit for.

I wish you continued luck, love & support on your journey to bringing debt down.

I will pop in from time to time to see how you are getting on.

I before I go here are some quotes I got from google:

"Dont forget that your human, its ok to have a melt down. Just dont unpack & live there. Cry it out & refocus on where your headed"

" Its ok to fall down & lose your spark, Just make sure when you get back up you rise as the whole damn fire"

All the best...x

Magpie100

Hi MiMi,

How are you getting on? I tend to draft my posts in Word first as it can be very frustrating otherwise, as you have found out.

Your ‘I am not a gargoyle’ as entry number one in your gratitude journal did make me laugh! Of course I would never think that of you anyway – why would I? Even if you WERE a gargoyle you would still be worthy of advice and support – even stone carvings can get in to financial trouble, I am sure. ☺ I am glad the date went well – I suppose all I would say is perhaps try not to overthink it and see him in London and see how you feel after that. Kind no judgementalness while paying for dinner seems to suggest he might be worth getting to know a bit more.

Yes, if you can charge a lodger a level that will keep you below paying tax on it (so the Rent a Room scheme amount) that will be one less thing for you to worry about financially. I would not advise throwing HMRC in to the mix right now. Perhaps once your daughter has gone back to Uni you’ll then be able to make a list of what needs to be done to make a lodger comfortable and then find cheap ways of auctioning it. Don’t be guilt-tripped in to feeling you have to make it like a palace for them – if it is tidy, clean and welcoming that should be fine. Obviously you may want to make sure you have things like locks on bathroom doors and storage space for them, but a decluttered neutral space is all that is needed.

How did you get on with returning the jeans?

I’m sorry to have mentioned the Christmas word (I really can’t bear the lead-up to it myself) but I did notice when reading through your diary that it does seem to be a time of year where things do go off the rails for you. It is very easy to get caught up in the ‘It’s Christmas’ ‘What’s another £25 on the credit card’ feel of it all, especially with endless advertising n marketing these days. When you feel up to it perhaps make a list of EXACTLY what you would need to buy, including things like decorations and food. Charity shops are very good for pre-loved Christmas decorations, and you could start with buying a coupe of Christmas things every month between now and the big day. It soon adds up.

Let us know what challenges you are facing this week and how you are getting on when you can.

MiMi66

Hi Magpie and Moneysavvy

Thanks for the helpful check in and following. So hopeful my story is helpful to other.

Sorry to have been off line the last few days. Wobbly and recovery took a downward turn. And here I am in the middle of the night yet again! My post surgical stuff is getting me down a bit and I think the anaesthetic has taken a big toll on my resilience. It'll pass but it's a pain. I am due to go to Occ Health on Friday and likely back to work next Wednesdays. We'll see. I want to go back but I don't want to be wobbly at work.

On the debt activity front I have done good. Jeans back and shoes. And another item returned by post. Not cash back exactly, as it was cc spends a few weeks ago, but at least I don't have to pay for them in reality. I plan to pay off my using cc next week (yay pay day Wednesday!! - am ridiculously excited) - sorry if I am repeating myself!

And my daughter and son have helped to declutter and dejunk the garage. 3 runs to the dump and charity shop. My daughter's kitchen things sorted for uni and a pile of things to sell. A couple of sales already done on Facebook and Amazon Seller. And more to go. Not a big sum but if it all sells it might be £150 which will start the emergency fund.

Selling CD's too - odd feeling. Like selling memories for 1p up to 12p it seems in Music Magpie. Awful when you think what was paid for them. But the world is digital now and on working on releasing myself from stuff.

I've had time to think more about the psychological patterning of debt accrual. I wonder if debt of the nature I have, self comforting spending and a bit of keeping up with partnered friends with two income households, might in some ways be due to childhood hurts - and result in a pattern of self comforting with having what the dressings of security. And how difficult though possible it is to retrain yourself from a habitual attitude to use of credit. I think I've read before that negative and damaging ha it's like smoking, drinking alcohol to excess, and gambling can result in the development of neural pathways to support those habits in the brain. Changing the behaviour required the building of new neural pathways which take a consistent change to address the habit and time. I think this must also be the car with debt accrual and stoping using credit.

I found myself in almost a high panic at points the last few days when the realisation hits that I am embarking a credit free life. No back up. So far so good. 10 days in and no credit card use. £28 to pay day but I may pull forward a tiny bit of my advanced pay to do a grocery shop.

Lodger wide Magpie - part of my down-ness the last few days is about the awful sense of moving my daughter out. She seems fine but I am struggling. However the way to address that fear and guilt is to try for the Monday to Friday lodger and also have a trial period to make sure we are compatible as house mates. I also need to figure out if utilities are extra in the lodging fee or is it meant to cover it all?

Ohhh suddenly sleepy - going to strike while eye lids are heavy on this 'PCM not a gargoyle' woman.

Will be back with more.

foxgloves

Morning Mimi,
Sorry to hear you've had a wobbly few days. It's bound to be quite an emotional time moving your daughter out & recovering from surgery.
I too used to be a spender, particularly on food, things for the home, clothes, garden centre stuff, craft supplies.....anything really. I think it was the impulsive thing of wanting it immediately coupled with complete absence of budget or financial planning. I think once I'd had the big LBM, the thing that most helped me was the realisation that the income earned each month is our money. That's it. There isn't any more. If I am using CCs to buy stuff, that's sonebody else's money, not mine (unless that CC is paid off in full every month without fail......& if we could all do that, presumably we wouldn't have used credit to buy the item in the 1st place).
I can understand that scary feeling of not havibg CCs for back-up, but they bring only false security. Real security comes from the knowledge & skills to live within your income because that's your money. Interesting what you say about neural pathways re good/bad habits. I think it is entirely possible to re-programme good habits as I think my partner & I have pretty much done it. No hair shirts in this house, but the incessant frittering of money & convincing ourselves we need stuff has, after decades (I'm very slightly older than you) been replaced by reality of what we can afford. It takes a while to get into the new mindset, but it is worth it to feel 100 times more in control of life.
Best wishes on your way forward,
F x