Green Deal MSE Guide Discussion

Ecodave

Earthmummy wrote: »

I just had a call from a Swansea Call Centre ("No, I don't work for Nev, everybody asks that hahahahahaha") about the Green Deal.

She told me that I MUST get an Energy Performance Certificate (EPC) or I'll be fined in 2016 for not having one. Council Tax will be rated on the energy performance of my property so I must have an EPC (or be fined).

She said I should get solid wall insulation and an A-rated energy oil boiler (I'd rather switch to wood-fired actually, but that fell on deaf ears) and then get (up to) £960 cashback (IN MY POCKET!!!! *pause for dramatic effect* - I'd rather it was in my bank, but there we are) and that's better than being fined in 2016 isn't it??!!


She then went off to "talk to my supervisor, he's so busy as you can imagine" (I'm just thinking of Nev on BBC3's Call Centre programme) so I logged on to the MSE website while she did that and read the Green Deal mythbusting page...

She came back: "All that it will cost you, upfront, is £299 and think of the £960 cashback you'll be getting (yeah, right) so it's nothing really."

You must be joking, said I, "I'm looking at a website that says the average charge is £120."

So she went back to talk to her supervisor ("he's so busy LOL") while I looked at the Energy Saving Trust, Government and Welsh Assembly sites and then, armed with the correct information, politely ended the call. ("Thank you for your call, I won't take up any more of your valuable time, goodbye," see, well brought up, I am. Sometimes. )

I didn't get the name of the company, but the number she was calling from was 08435 600 056. I remain cynical about the Green Deal and it's cold callers like that one which keeps it that way.

I can't find anything that says Council Tax banding will be changing to being based on the EPC - so is that true? And will I be fined in 2016 for NOT having an EPC? I can't find anything out about that either (I'm not planning to sell or move, perhaps I'd be fined if I tried to do that without one.)

No, there is currently no link between council tax and EPC's however it has been mooted as a possible driver for getting people to pay attention to EPC's, and therefore to their energy usage. There is legislation in the rental sector that will come in, I think in 2018, that would require a rental property to be rated at band 'E' or better.

It's a shame that you haven't had a good experience with Green Deal, but you aren't alone in this unfortunately. The launch (if you can call it that) of Green Deal has been an unmitigated disaster, with problems relating to software and finance mainly holding it back. It seems like these issues have been resolved now, so the market should start to gain momentum over the autumn.

I would agree that the quotes of more than £200 are excessive, and would expect to pay around £150.

John_Pierpoint

It might depend on which country you live in:
http://www.gillespiemacandrew.co.uk/news-views/latest-news/2012/energy-act-will-affect-rural-property-owners,-landlords-and-tenants

lstar337

Ecodave wrote: »

No, there is currently no link between council tax and EPC's however it has been mooted as a possible driver for getting people to pay attention to EPC's, and therefore to their energy usage.

Isn't that going to be unfair on renters like myself?

In effect our choices would be:

1. Pay high council tax because the property has a low Energy Efficiency Rating.
2. Pay lower council tax, but at the expense of upgrading the landlords property for them.
3. Pay lower council tax, but only if you can convince the landlord to bring the properties EER up.

Most renters will end up in group 1. Our landlord has already made it clear that they are not interested in trying to improve our properties EER, as "Your energy bills are not my problem".

Maybe they should just have an EER tax, that applies to landlords and not tenants.

lstar337

Ecodave wrote: »

There is legislation in the rental sector that will come in, I think in 2018, that would require a rental property to be rated at band 'E' or better.

E isn't good enough IMHO.

Our rating is 'D' (although I think most of our EPC is complete BS), and our place was almost impossible to heat this last winter, and our bills were still astronimical!

Ecodave

lstar337 wrote: »

Isn't that going to be unfair on renters like myself?

In effect our choices would be:

1. Pay high council tax because the property has a low Energy Efficiency Rating.
2. Pay lower council tax, but at the expense of upgrading the landlords property for them.
3. Pay lower council tax, but only if you can convince the landlord to bring the properties EER up.

Most renters will end up in group 1. Our landlord has already made it clear that they are not interested in trying to improve our properties EER, as "Your energy bills are not my problem".


Maybe they should just have an EER tax, that applies to landlords and not tenants.

There has been no official comment on this as far as I am aware, only speculation from within the industry and the press, so I wouldn't fret about it until it becomes government policy.

When choosing which rental property you want to live in, it is sensible to consider all costs associated with its habitation. Energy costs are so high now that no sensible person would disregard these costs when contemplating renting out a property. As such, it is in your landlords interest (whether he/she appreciates it or not) to address the deficits in the properties energy efficiency. To do so, is often quite cheap, eg loft insulation, heating controls. If the landlord refuses, and you wish to stay in the property (WHY?) then doing these yourself will fairly quickly save you money.

I agree that an "E" rating is a fairly unambitious start, I would have thought that this would be the first step on a fairly long path.

lstar337

Ecodave wrote: »

When choosing which rental property you want to live in, it is sensible to consider all costs associated with its habitation. Energy costs are so high now that no sensible person would disregard these costs when contemplating renting out a property.

There isn't always a choice though. I wouldn't choose to live where we are now, but at the time (and ever since) it was the only place available that was affordable.

Ecodave wrote: »

As such, it is in your landlords interest (whether he/she appreciates it or not) to address the deficits in the properties energy efficiency.

I understand what you are saying, but it isn't a reality here. There is so little housing to go round, that the landlords have all the power.

Another factor here, is that the landlords will always be able to fill properties (regardless of EER) because we have a large amount of forreign workers, who will live virtually anywhere.

Ecodave wrote: »

To do so, is often quite cheap, eg loft insulation,

We are mid level, so no loft.

Ecodave wrote: »

heating controls.

We have storage heaters, so no (or little) control.

Ecodave wrote: »

If the landlord refuses, and you wish to stay in the property (WHY?)

Because there is nothing else.

Ecodave wrote: »

then doing these yourself will fairly quickly save you money.

True, but I don't want to benefit a landlord who has no interest in helping at all. I have done just about all the energy saving things I can, that can be taken with us when we leave.

Ecodave wrote: »

I agree that an "E" rating is a fairly unambitious start, I would have thought that this would be the first step on a fairly long path.

I would expect them to start at a 'D'.

Ecodave

I believe that there is another regulation coming in that says that a landlord won't be able to refuse any "reasonable" request for efficiency improvements, where they are specified on an epc and "green ticked" - i.e. can be done on Green Deal with no upfront cash. As many landlords wont want a green deal plan linked to their property (they are responsible for payments during void periods, and it may make the property harder to let) then they are incentivised to get this work done independently.

John_Pierpoint

lstar337 wrote: »

There isn't always a choice though. I wouldn't choose to live where we are now, but at the time (and ever since) it was the only place available that was affordable.

which town are you living in?
When did you sign on the dotted line with the landlord?
Did he offer you a copy of his Energy Performance Certificate?
You may find that your landlord is himself a tenant of someonelse's lease and not a free agent in the matter of insulation.
[What has he done to protect your deposit?]

lstar337 wrote: »

We have storage heaters, so no (or little) control.

I think you will find that modern storage heaters must have something monitoring the outside temperature ? This should mean that you don't have to fiddle with the flap and thermostat controls, after watching the weather forecast, every evening.
I had a gas fired central heating system in my first house, that had been installed in the 1960s; it monitored the outside temperature and adjusted the heating of my semi accordingly. [Next door had a similar system, and it was the funniest thing:
The neighbours sold and a new family moved in during June. The newcomers promptly sent for the "gas board" engineer, who dismantled the boiler looking for the fault. When I got in from work, I was able to put then out of their misery with a bag of ice cubes out of their fridge]

We lived in a hill top village, so this automatic adjustment of assumed heat demand did not work correctly on windy winter nights.
As you are in a flat (?) is your major problem still an excessive rate of air change?
Mind you it is a balance, reduce the rate of air change in a property with inadequate insulation and cold bridges and just your hot sweaty breath will create condensation and black mould.
As someone who still has a commercial interest in home insulation, we have noticed a gathering realisation amongst landlords that they could end up owning a buy to let that it will be illegal to let some time soon.
If you want to post a thread explaining about the property and what has been done and not done to your home in the way of draught proofing and insulation; then link to it from here. I am sure some of us can offer cost effective advice

lstar337 wrote: »

Because there is nothing else.

True, but I don't want to benefit a landlord who has no interest in helping at all. I have done just about all the energy saving things I can, that can be taken with us when we leave.

I would expect them to start at a 'D'.

:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T

gilburton

goodybags wrote: »

hi there
have you tried speaking to ESAS
THE ENERGY SAVINGS ADVICE SERVICE
turned you down ?

I can't remember the name but it was a national company.
I have contacted the ESAS but basically all they have done is reapply to Scottish and Southern.
He did mention that the companies are under no obligation to install full central heating under the "Affordable Warmth" so that will probably be that.:(

[Deleted User]

So... If I wanted to get a Green Deal assessment done now, who is the best company to get it done with? Who will also then carry out the work?