Green Deal MSE Guide Discussion

[Deleted User]

andy208833 wrote: »

I live down in Somerset and have a relatively old house in need of green improvements to reduce my bills. I thought this was a godsend as i do not have the spare cash for the improvements.

I used British Gas at £99 for the assessment and it recommended various improvements including solid wall insulation in my two upstairs rooms (i have a dormer bungalow) which currently have nil insulation.

And here is where the saga starts.....there is no-one to do the work! i used the gov website to find providers (only 6 in SW) and none of them will provide what i need.

So i am asking what was the point? I am now £99 down and no further to getting the work done. Anyone have a success story using the green deal?

Exactly. I want to get an assessment done too and like the sound of the BG £99 offer. But until I know I can get the stuff done, including changing solid fuel heating for gas, then I'm just going to keep waiting.

Furts

I had cavity wall insulation installed last year by DGI. They did not want to drill at high level despite this being on the survey ("how are we meant to get up there?"). They drove off before completing the job, leaving me to clean up their debris, wash down the windows...

DGI agreed much of my home had not been insulated, they had broken the roof, they had not pointed the drill holes, brickwork had been damaged by them - the list goes on. It appeared they were not particularly concerned - this was how they operated.

DGI returned to rectify the insulation, but the repairs were a different matter. Workers were sent to my home and caused more damage. Then again for more damage, and then again for more damage. A meeting was then held with a supervisor - who promptly did more damage.

The DGI message appeared to be: "We will create more damage to your home until you withdraw your complaint." DGI were banned from returning.

After this, I went on holiday and whilst away DGI sent more men to scale the roof and create more damage. The keyholder challenged these men. She felt intimidated, and said the police would be called.

I have circulated instructions to the keyholder that should DGI re-appear she must not confront them. Instead, she must dial 999 and have the men arrested. If they are again on the roof I will press charges for Criminal Damage.

DGI are happy they -do not want the expense of dispatching men to create damage, nor the inconvenience that goes with arrested employees.

Consequently, DGI have notified me they expect me to employ a roofer, a bricklayer, access equipment and materials to rectify their problems. For this they will reimburse up to £130, whilst knowing just a one tonne bag of sand is £120! So the thugs and cowboys are now trying to stitch me up financially.

DGI have told me they have no supervision of their work. DGI have also admitted they have no quality control procedures, nor any customer care procedures. Thus, DGI imply I must not take the DGI experience personally - it is the price one incurs for dealing with them.

I have asked many times for a compensation, good will or an ex gratia payment from DGI. Of course, they will offer nothing.

I am posting this as a warning to fellow forum users should they be thinking about engaging the services of DGI. This company is a disaster, with thugs, bullies and cowboys - avoid it like the plague.

I am qualified within the construction industry with a lifetime of experience. This is not a post from a crank, nor one from an unreasonable person. I know things can go wrong, but expect them to then be put right. This experience shows willful lack of attention to detail and willful damage. Basically, absolute bloody minded "We do not give a f--k".

Nobody should entertain this company for any Green Deal work.

joey66

cdunne wrote: »

My boiler is old (about 20 years) and now broken. I'd come across the Green Deal on MSE and am intending to get cash-back on a new one. I've just had an assessment today (I forget which company it was with but it was organised by my district council).

The assessors (one experienced and one a trainee) seemed quite through, they then came up with the exact same energy rating (E) that I'd got from my suppliers (SSE) online Energy Efficiency Survey. At the end of it one said that the government hadn't managed to release any Green Deal funding yet, and that their company had come up with a similar scheme (Greener Deal) which they warned me they will try to sell to me when they give me their report.

One post states 10000 assessments conducted but only 100 converted, is there a long delay to get them converted?

I'm getting Higher Rate Disability Living Allowance but because that is not a means tested benefit I don't think I'm entitled to any other methods of funding the boiler but will happily be proven wrong. Perhaps being disabled and without any working heating / hot water can get my conversion boosted in the pile of those waiting (I did skip the queue to get an assessment in the first place).

Although not much has been funded by Green Deal yet, ECO funding is being used. ECO (the Energy Companies' Obligation) is the replacement for CERT and CESP and requires the energy suppliers to fund work for people in 'hard to treat' homes and those on certain benefits or in particular locations.

cdunne: If your boiler is old/broken/inefficient, there's a good chance it will qualify for replacement under ECO rules; however, you (or someone in your household) must be in receipt of:
* child tax credit and have income of £15,860 or less
* income-related employment and support allowance, plus work-related activity or support component OR have parental responsibility for a qualifying child OR be in receipt of a qualifying component
* income-based job seekers allowance, plus have parental responsibility for a qualifying child OR be in receipt of a qualifying component
* income support, plus have parental responsibility for a qualifying child OR be in receipt of a qualifying component
* state pension credit
* working tax credit and have income of £15,860 or less, plus have parental responsibility for a qualifying child OR receive a disabled worker element or severe disability element OR be aged 60 or over

Households that qualify for ECO can get work done completely free of charge - the energy companies have targets to reach by 2015 so they have to spend the money. You won't have to pay for the assessment or for any of the work - although you won't be able to claim cashback on this!

Happy to answer questions on this - I work on ECO for a small charity/think-tank that works with local authorities, so am not touting for business. There is info online (DECC and Ofgem websites) but some of it is somewhat impenetrable!

John_Pierpoint

I have survived the attempted insulation of cavity walls on three houses.

Of the three, Domestic and General Insulation were the best (!)

The salesman was obviously going to say yes to a £0 installation [Down on their sales target ?] but he went ahead and drilled the test holes and had a look around - agreeing to fill an over wide section of cavity. An an installation was agreed for a week later - as I had agreed to stuff the tops on the open cavity wall.
An attempt was made, to bring forward the installation date, but I turned it down as the cavity stuffing had not been completed.

The actual installation with styrene bead was made by a team of 2 lead by a British Gas trained operative, who was only too happy to explain what he was doing and discuss the suitability of my walls.

Another similar job to the above, involving a different company, could have degenerated to a situation, similar to the case of the above poster.

"Can you tell me how far apart the holes should be ?"
- Are you trying to tell me how to do my job ?
"No not at all I am just asking you the specification to which your assistant is working". ..............

Knowing I had a print out of their Agrement Certificate and remembering the observations of Mary Parker Follett to let the "job dictate the solution" and not turn it into personalities; I was able to get the (extra) holes drilled, without punching someone on the nose.

It is sad but a lot of near unemployables got sucked into the business, probably working for get rich quick managers in a process driven by commission.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Parker_Follett
http://www.economics.arawakcity.org/node/441
http://www.bbacerts.co.uk/product-approval/agrement-certificates.aspx

joey66

hazdriver wrote: »

I guess that the conversion rate is low because hardly anyone is taking up the offer

First of all, let me say that I recognise there are lots of issues and reasons why customers are not rushing to take on Green Deal loans. HOWEVER, the main reason why the conversion rate is currently so low is because there is only one source of finance for this scheme: The Green Deal Finance Company (TGDFC). This is an 'industry-led consortium' of big players including many of the energy suppliers, Green Deal Providers, construction companies etc, who are getting their finance from the Green Investment Bank.

The process of setting all this up, including IT systems and due diligence procedures, has taken a very long time, so TGDFC has only just begun to make money available (so far, just two Providers have a credit facility).

So, although Providers may have been offering surveys/assessments, they couldn't produce a Green Deal Plan because they have no finance available. In theory, the money could come from other sources, but due to the complexity of the IT system that has been set up, including linking the charge to the Landmark EPC register, collecting repayments through the energy supplier electricity bills, etc, this is very unlikely to happen in the near future.

Of course, this is also part of the reason we're stuck with the single interest rate: TGDFC has a monopoly.

Anyway, we should see more GD Plans and a higher conversion rate once the finance is made available to more Providers (which they say will be 'soon'!).

John_Pierpoint

Furts wrote: »

I had cavity wall insulation installed last year by DGI.

Nobody should entertain this company for any Green Deal work.

"A picture is worth 1,000 words"

Have you any photos you could post here?

Such as this one:

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/9583264.Burnley_pensioner_in_damp__hell_house_/

Coulsdon_Town

joey66 wrote: »

First of all, let me say that I recognise there are lots of issues and reasons why customers are not rushing to take on Green Deal loans. HOWEVER, the main reason why the conversion rate is currently so low is because there is only one source of finance for this scheme: The Green Deal Finance Company (TGDFC). This is an 'industry-led consortium' of big players including many of the energy suppliers, Green Deal Providers, construction companies etc, who are getting their finance from the Green Investment Bank. ...END]

An explanation is very useful, but i'm afraid Green Deal is losing a lot of credibility, because actions speak louder than words. If you've had a G.D. assessment from a big energy company (other options are available) and they then fob you off for weeks and months, when you were expecting to get a report within days, what confidence does it give you? I know i claim not to be cynical, but i can't help noticing from the above that Green Deal Finance (TGDFC) is run partly by the Big Six energy companies, and is generally stopping those same companies from offering actual G.D. Plans - the SAME companies who would have a vested interest in obstructing us from making our homes more energy efficient.
Here is a DECC press release about recent surveys into attitudes and intentions from the public re Green Deal. Pretty dry stuff but if you want it...
I did notice two stats in the Executive Summary :
22% of the 'May Dip' sample said they were aware of Green Deal, whereas another question asked "...whether they had seen, heard or read any advertising, news or publicity about any initiatives that allow people to make energy saving improvements to their home" and the result was 66% 'Yes' in the 'May Dip' sample. Wake up Journalists! The second question doesn't mention Green Deal, so it doesn't say that 66% are aware of G.D. as you have been reporting! The answer is 22%.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/green-deal-inspiring-energy-saving-action

Below should be the link to some new stats due out on Thursday 27/6/13 on numbers of G.D. surveys, G.D. plans agreed, and also households intending to install any of their G.D. survey recommendations but without using G.D. finance.
Previous stats on numbers of surveys and some other stuff are also there.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications?keywords=green+deal&publication_filter_option=statistics&topics%5B%5D=all&departments%5B%5D=all&world_locations%5B%5D=all&direction=before&date=2013-06-01

[Deleted User]

Can you get solid fuel (coke fire) central heating replaced with gas central heating on ECO?

Coulsdon_Town

Below is the link. Click on Data Tables for the numbers only. For some reason the cut-off for these stats was 16/6/13 so some full monthly comparisons aren't possible. However...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/green-deal-and-energy-company-obligation-eco-monthly-statistics-june-2013

My Summary :
Total of signed G.D. Plans : 4 (yes, I said 'four')
Total of New Plans (awaiting signature of customer) : 241
Out of a
Total of G.D. Assessments lodged ('filed') : 38,259 so even if you count all the 'new' plans the 'conversion rate' is only 0.6%.

Total lodged in April : 9,522
Total lodged in May : 12,146
Total lodged June 1st-16th : 7,297, so growth may be levelling off but hard to tell.

Number of assessed properties installing measures but NOT through a G.D. plan - no actual stats for that. However, number of installed measures for which a cashback voucher was redeemed is 974. (5,118 vouchers issued so most not 'spent' yet). The average G.D. report is recommending about 3 measures for the property, so you could extrapolate that the number of households just using the cashback scheme is between about 325 and 974 - either way it's more than the number of G.D. Plans agreed, possibly four times more.
(This could change as the number of signed Plans increases - I presume those 241 'new' Plan people haven't redeemed a voucher as part of a G.D. Plan until then.)
Virtually everyone redeeming a voucher has used it to replace a boiler - 961 out of 974. The others were for :
Loft insulation : 6
Cavity wall insulation : 2
Solid wall insulation : 5

In contrast ECO grants have delivered 81,798 measures to 72,525 individual properties.
56% (45,406) of these were loft insulation
33% (26,836) of these were cavity wall insulation
9% (7,584) of these were replacement boilers

So while ECO is so far continuing where the old schemes left off in doing insulation measures for people or properties which qualify for assistance, Green Deal is so far only helping people who can find (most of?) the money themselves to replace their boiler, by giving a cashback voucher of around £300.

helenm2008

Hello everyone, I thought I'd add my experience so far to the board. I had my assessment done by British Gas back in March. Since then I've been trying to find a provider (for external solid wall insulation).

There are 6 listed on the governement website for my area (N. Herts). Only one has got back to me so far and told me they will charge me £99 to survey my property before giving me a quote for the work!

I'm reeling a little about this, never having before had to pay a construction company for the benefit of trying to sell me their services!

I have to say that the hoops I've had to jump through so far have been a pain. If it wasn't for the fact that i want the insulation and have paid BG £99 already, I wouldn't bother going any further.

As it is, we've already discarded the finance option, for all the reasons specified by others here - don't want it hanging over any future sale of our home, not convinced that we would save enough on our electricity bill to meet the payments as we are lower users.

What a faff!