Green Deal MSE Guide Discussion

Me_fishy_u_chippie

Gentlemen,

The point is very, very simple. Offering an olive branch (pay as you save) with a sting in the tail (usury rates of interest) is not good advice to the poorest in society. The GD is being mis-sold already. It is not here to help the poorest in society, who, as a generalisation, inhabit the least energy efficient dwellings, as they pay most for it - how can that be fair? It is a mechanism for government to meets its legal and contractural agreements to meet lower emissions. Therefore, unless the GD "helps" in the normal understanding of the word, it is not fit for anyone other than the richer in society - they can absorb the cost of it. But its not being targeted at them. Odd that. Presumably as they have more money, they have more sense, and wont be falling for this claptrap.

Spacmanc refer to the thread - the question was posed for Howee (twice now - but on both occasions sidestepped for obvious reasons).

When the householder receives no economic benefit for a scheme devised by government to meet its obligations. By giving the neediest the "option" of paying 2 or possibly 3 times over for meagre improvements to comfort underpinned by an unenforceable GR this deal stinks!

It is vital that people are made aware of this.

Off to the fish bar!

Richie-from-the-Boro

Agreed - It is vital that people are made aware of this, on each and every occasion. At the end of the day people will make their own mind up from all information supplied. If left to the industry or GOV no one would ever find an opposing set of views and opinions.

spacemanc

Me_fishy_u_chippie wrote: »

usury rates of interest

Seriously, very few people would consider 7% interest a usury rate on a loan issued without credit checks. I suggest you have a look at real world loan rates, (i.e. not second mortgages) and see what the current best rates are even for people with 100% A1 credit ratings.

And GD isn't purely all about saving money for the householder - it's also about cutting emissions, increasing comfort in the home and improving our homes. Also the assessment gives useful advice and information, whether the householder goes for GD finance or not.

One thing that I've not heard from fishy and Richie is what they suggest would be a better scheme. I'd be interested to hear.

EDIT - Btw just had a look on the Nationwide website. The actual rate for the Green Deal loan (which is in fact a second mortgage) is actually from 4.6% if you aren't already a customer - and that's based on you having a perfect credit record and a load of equity in your property (even after the loan).

Richie-from-the-Boro

spacemanc wrote: »

Seriously, very few people would consider 7% interest a usury rate on a loan issued without credit checks. I suggest you have a look at real world loan rates, (i.e. not second mortgages) and see what the current best rates are even for people with 100% A1 credit ratings.

And GD isn't purely all about saving money for the householder - it's also about cutting emissions, increasing comfort in the home and improving our homes. Also the assessment gives useful advice and information, whether the householder goes for GD finance or not.

One thing that I've not heard from fishy and Richie is what they suggest would be a better scheme. I'd be interested to hear.

EDIT - Btw just had a look on the Nationwide website. The actual rate for the Green Deal loan (which is in fact a second mortgage) is actually from 4.6% if you aren't already a customer - and that's based on you having a perfect credit record and a load of equity in your property (even after the loan).

It is vital that people are made aware of the pitfalls as I see them, on each and every occasion. At the end of the day people will make their own mind up from all information supplied. I for one will continue to make that case, If left to the industry or GOV no one would ever find an opposing set of views and opinions. I've made it clear many times that emissions are a big con and are of no interest whatsoever to me - and as far as I'm concerned not for debate by myself. BTW I applaud the Nationwide initiative, that at least works for those that are able to satisfy the requirements, with that said then Nationwide is also not for debate by myself.

Most other areas of debate were aired earlier in this and other threads and I for one am not going over that ground again. I will however continue to post my opposing set of views and opinions as I see them on the Green Deal.

spacemanc

If that's the best you can come up with Richie, then there isn't even any need for me to make a case for it. :beer:

It sounds like you're opposing it for the sake of it, and no offence but I picture you as some kind of Jim Royle character sat there mumbling to yourself "Green Deal my a*se!" without really understanding it, or having any better ideas.

Richie-from-the-Boro

spacemanc wrote: »

If that's the best you can come up with Richie, then there isn't even any need for me to make a case for it. :beer:

It sounds like you're opposing it for the sake of it, and no offence but I picture you as some kind of Jim Royle character sat there mumbling to yourself "Green Deal my a*se!" without really understanding it, or having any better ideas.

I've extensively debated it - read what's already written. No offence taken because your opinion of me, is like mine of yourself - worthless in the scheme of things. I'm not interested in entertaining anyone in a debate already had and concluded - I'll leave that for the Phanboys.

Now unless someone brings anything new to the table .. .. .. reiterating what I've already said is just a waste of the worlds commas and alphabet, I'm not here to entertain.

I await a better scheme which will never happen unless GOV intervene and forcefully re-impose the integrity of the intended design barriers and break up the current in~house single unit delivery, and there's little sight of that at the moment, as evidenced by the posts here. No one private S public S or domestic S is taking it up.

Me_fishy_u_chippie

Spacemanc and Howee and others "selling" this dogs dinner of a deal - good evening to you!

Please let the forum know when you take out the GD yourselves, and how you get on?

x

Richie-from-the-Boro

- 1,803 green deal assessments by end Feb, but how many assessments converted into agreeing a GD finance package ?
- 77 organisations now accredited GD assessors, and 619 advisor's - no comment on the independence of the 619
- 80% of the UK population of 63.2 million + base population of just England & Wales and no conversions into a finance package
- we have the bedroom [property] tax targeted mainly at the poor, now we have the GD [property tax] targeted mainly against the poor
- statistically about 20% of the about 80% are likely to be social housing tenants with poor credit & receiving benefits

Already struggling to pay basic energy bills this group are already in fuel poverty, anyone reading these board will know from MSE posts they are already under-heating their homes for lack of cash. There's no way for them to achieve the energy savings needed to afford the repayments of GD finance. The GD will not cut bills significantly enough to make it worthwhile for most people, and until it does become economically worthwhile conversions into and out the other side of a finance package are just not going to happen in any worthwhile numbers.

I sit on a HA board and I can tell you for a fact almost no Housing Association south of the Scottish Border is giving permissions for their vulnerable tenants to take up the green deal. The same bedroom tax mentioned earlier in this # along with the other 16 benefit reductions will further reduce the capacity of the social rented sector to pass a green deal credit check, and even if they did the capacity to default on their energy bills becomes staggeringly obvious.

The promise of manyana tomorrow forces already fuel and cash poor and vulnerable individuals into further and further debt. The extended patio went last week along with many other moderated politically inept bills - perhaps the GD also will go or be allowed to wither on the vine.

sheffield_lad

It looks like to change Richie's mind you may need to chance his politics.

I do agree with him over going over old ground though. Lets see what happens in the next few months.

jerrydom

Free Green Deal Assessments

It is still possible to get free (no obligation) home assessments. I represent a company that does just that so there is no money to pay upfront and the savings in energy costs pay for any work done. If you decide not to go with the assessments there is no fee to pay and it's not one of those schemes where you get it free but only if you go with us. We offer three schemes:

Affordable Warmth Scheme - Broken Boilers
- for people on low incomes to have their boiler fixed free
Affordable Warmth Scheme
- for people on low incomes for Free Cavity and Roof Insulation
and The Green Deal For Homes
- charges for work completed are added to the energy bill after savings are deducted. The charges must be less than the energy saved.

Let me know if you would like further details