Green Deal MSE Guide Discussion

elantan

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

I'm sure that if I was their neighbour, I could have done a deal with them at less than 20%.
Perhaps they have a really strange roof with several shading issues; but even I, a little over a year ago, bought a 3.6 kWp system, against the clock, so not in a good negotiating position, for a little over £10k.
What is it that makes some people so secretive about money, that they fail to ask for advice and pay way over the odds?

Ask the people on this thread what they think should be the economics of panel installation now - especially the one with a "moniker" starting Z.......

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/59448301#Comment_59448301

See I thought this myself, I have spoke to others that have a solar panel system fitted and they didn't pay nearly half as much ... But my friend showed me some paper work and that was their cost, they thought they had got a deal with it as well

Johnandabby wrote: »

But that wouldn't meet the 'golden rule' so won't only part of this be actually Green Deal financed, if any at all?

The dividend wouldn't even cover the annual interest, assuming a loan of the full £12k. Wouldn't get close to paying back even in 25 yrs, which is probably the life of the system.

20% APR is madness - they might as well burn money to keep themselves warm instead!!

Yep I thought that with the 20% apr as well and tbh I hadn't heard of the dividend bit before either, they are getting 17.9 p per unit as well back and I thought it was 22.5p per unit now ( down from the previous 45p) they also got £600 and something ( not sure exactly how much ) as a government grant

elantan

Ecodave wrote: »

Elentan,

I doubt that your neighbours have used Green Deal finance to install their solar panels. For a start, a solar installation without the involvement of the Green Deal process can take a coupe of months to organise, Green Deal only launched at the end of Jan. Problems with software meant that no plans were written anywhere in the country for the first month. When were their panels installed? All this is before I point out that GD finance would only cover a fraction of the install cost of solar pv, so the bulk would have been financed in a traditional format.

If you want to consider GD as a vehicle for improving the energy efficiency of your home then that's great, but please ensure you understand how it works before you pay for an assessment.

They maybe haven't but they are certainly under the impression that that is what they have ... Have to admit I was sitting gobsmacked last night and couldn't fully take in all I was hearing but I do remember some bits ... It cost 12k it's 20%apr they pay £114 a month with a dividend from the government of £104 every 3 months ... They get 17.9p per unit and they got. £600 and odd from the government at the start

Wouldn't the 600 odd and the dividend and the 17.9 make it green deal though ?

Ecodave

There is no government scheme that I know of that pays a householder any amount of money up-front to install solar panels. Your neighbours appear to have been mislead on this point. The governments cashback scheme related to Green Deal improvements offers an incentive for early adopters, but solar pv was excluded from the measures that received a cashback as the Feed-in-tariff scheme was considered to be a large enough incentive.

Sounds like a deceptive sales ploy to me.

Your neighbours appear to be paying £1368 a year for something that will deliver a return of £600 (am being generous here and including a decent amount of saving on leccy bills!). I would guess that this "deal" has been offered to them over at least 15 years, probably 20.

OUCH!

elantan

Just texted my friend there, she informs me it took two weeks for the full process and that they didn't pay for a risk assessment or anything

elantan

Thanks Eco Dave I have a feeling myself things arnt right, they way I figured it was that they wernt even paying the interest off over the year, so in effect after the first year they would owe more than £12k

They also tell me they were advised not to use heavy electrical goods at the same time ie: to put the washing machine on an when the cycle is finished then to put the dishwasher on and when thy finished do the hoovering, I found that a bit bizzare as well ... They said the reason for this was that it doesn't use up the electricity that they are creating

Have you ever been sitting scratching your head and trying to understand something but not getting anywhere lol

Me_fishy_u_chippie

Gentlemen, I have resurfaced for air!

Latest from DECC - GD assessments in April 2013 now at ....................................drum roll purleeeease.............................7,400 or 1,480 potential contracts! Or less than 500 per month! Hmmm!

From my perspective it appears that the GD is throwing up more inconsistencies and confusion than the smog of battle at Waterloo - and look what happened to Napoleon!

Clarity is the key to a successful policy and indeed any human endevour. This forum is populated by intelligent people who have an opinion and in many cases experience of the issues at hand. The general thread of opinion is that confusion reigns.

I saw this on Solar Power Portal, a response from a member of the public who responded to DECC's triumphant announcement.

"John • Very interesting this and completley goes against my experince of what is happening in the real world. Occupancy assessment software not working. Green Deal Improvement Tool still not tested next best assessment testing complete 29th April. Funding not reached providers to date. The only 2 providers who boast funding are telling me they won't be ready to write orders until mid May at earliest. Providers who's vested interest is in getting my business are advising to forget about the Green Deal in the short term and concentrate on something else. Software available gives different results for same property. Ring the 0300 123 1234 number and they haven't a clue whats going on. Its like wading through treacle and a total shambles with the goal posts moving every day. Even training companies can't give correct advice becasue by the next day its changed. It would be a joke but its not funny with Companies and individuals investing in this tug boat of a Government flag ship now running out of cash."




I have said this before and I will say it again. A overly complicated, bureacratic and onerous system delivering little or no benefit to Mr Poor-Pleb is not the way to go.

Like the scandal of PFI where the government offloaded debt/risk from their balance sheet in return for finance from private sources but ultimately ended up owning the risk but not the profits. This policy will not deliver.

So far, some of the biggest subscribers of the GD are from publicly funded bodies such as councils - guess who pays THAT bill. Newcastle City Council is a stakeholder!!! Yes, you, the taxpayer in Newcastle - your council has signed you up to a USURY rate of interest to be paid for by Mr Poor-Plebs northern family member ..............................Mr Newcastle-Poor-Pleb-Taxpayer. (you must be rich - but you soon wont be).

George Orwell could not have made it up himself!

Dive,dive,dive!

x

John_Pierpoint

elantan wrote: »

They also tell me they were advised not to use heavy electrical goods at the same time ie: to put the washing machine on an when the cycle is finished then to put the dishwasher on and when thy finished do the hoovering, I found that a bit bizzare as well ... They said the reason for this was that it doesn't use up the electricity that they are creating

That does make some sense.

On as nice sunny day the panels will be generating at a rate of 3kW. The generation meter will be flashing its little red light at about 50 flashes a minute (= 3000 flashes per hour geddit ?). They almost certainly won't have an export meter (yet?) and there is a chance that their old fashioned analogue importing meter might be going backwards.

The pv panels produce direct current but this is turned into alternating current by an inverter. The inverter is clever enough to monitor the mains and produce its AC at a slightly higher voltage. This electricity can then go "backwards" into the mains if it is not used up inside the home.
Turning on the immersion hater is the easiest way of using up this home made electricity, but once the hot water tank is up to temperature, turning on the washing machine/dish washer or doing some cooking can help use up this "free" electricity.

Obviously turning on the immersion and the washing machine at the same time, won't get the use of both for free.

However, unless the installation also includes some clever software to monitor the output from the panels and automatically turn on and off appropriate domestic appliances, the annual extra savings will be a few 10s of pounds.

Will there be someone at home during the day to monitor the panels and switch on appropriate items in sequence, to mop up the "spare" electricity?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/60622391#Comment_60622391

sheffield_lad

Me_fishy_u_chippie wrote: »

I have said this before and I will say it again. A overly complicated, bureacratic and onerous system delivering little or no benefit to Mr Poor-Pleb is not the way to go.

It's easy to knock green deal, complicated, interest etc etc but the folk who knock it (inc Labour), have no answer as to what they would replace it with?

Answers on a postcard, until then lets give GD a go.

Cardew

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

Turning on the immersion hater is the easiest way of using up this home made electricity,

It is worth pointing out to elantan that if gas is normally used to heat the water, you have to be very careful about when to use the immersion heater or you could end up losing money.

In round figures gas costs 4p/kWh and Electricity 12p/kWh.

As an example, take a situation where you have a 3kW immersion heater and only have a 'spare' 1.5kW from your panels after the house background consumption.

Switching on the immersion heater means it will draw 3kW, so 1.5kW will be free from your panels and you will be using 1.5kW from the mains at 18p an hour.

The cost of gas heating would be 12p an hour.

mickynev

just had british gas Green deal assessment completed today.

have been told that the windows and door will not be included because they generally don't improve the efficiency enough.

they will contribute an amount.

you can then obtain a quotation from an approved supplier for twice the amount.