Taking kids on holiday when mother objects

Valli

But, given that she is now in recovery she might well be planning, at some point, to apply for custody.

The change in her behaviour alone would be an indicator, to me, that it is time for formal arrangements to be in place.

Tigsteroonie

19lottie82 wrote: »

My OH is a fantastic dad and has been their sole carer for almost 4 years. He lives right next to the kids school and his parents who provide an excellent support network in terms of after school childcare. She has only been off the drink for a year and prior to that used to go off the radar for weeks at a time due to her addiction.
I really can't see any court in the country uprooting them from my OH, considering the circumstances.

Nor can I ... but at the moment, there is nothing to stop her from keeping the children & not returning them at the end of a visit. If she did that, your partner would presumably start custody proceedings to get them returned.

19lottie82

Valli wrote: »

But, given that she is now in recovery she might well be planning, at some point, to apply for custody.

The change in her behaviour alone would be an indicator, to me, that it is time for formal arrangements to be in place.

Hi Valli - as I explained she has tried to apply for custody twice and has been refused legal aid.

It is my understanding that a judge would be unwilling to uproot a child from a safe stable and loving home without good reason.
Also my OH never denies her access which I'm sure would work in his favour.

Valli

19lottie82 wrote: »

Hi Valli - as I explained she has tried to apply for custody twice and has been refused legal aid.

It is my understanding that a judge would be unwilling to uproot a child from a safe stable and loving home without good reason.
Also my OH never denies her access which I'm sure would work in his favour.

I know BUT if she is getting cleaned up part of the reason might well be that she wants her girls back ASAP.
Forewarned is forearmed.
Like Tigs says, one day she might just keep them. Then you will have to find the money to fight. She hasn't applied for custody twice; she's applied for legal aid to fight for it twice. You KNOW she wants her girls.
And when it goes to court it migt well be his word against hers. However, given the ages of the girls their wishes might be taken into consideration.

19lottie82

Tigsteroonie wrote: »

Nor can I ... but at the moment, there is nothing to stop her from keeping the children & not returning them at the end of a visit. If she did that, your partner would presumably start custody proceedings to get them returned.

Yes you're right. Although for a certain reason I can't see her doing this. Plus the eldest is almost 13 and knows her own mind, so wouldn't stand for that at all. She is getting very fed up of her mothers antics and rightly so.
It's pretty sad to be honest as all that she will achieve in the long run is that her kids will resent her. I just can't understand how someone could deny their kids a holiday for no reason than their own bitterness :-(

PS my OH has just spoken to his eldest and she said that she is going to speak to her mum next weekend and try and get her to change her mind as she really wants to go.

clearingout

Tigsteroonie wrote: »

Nor can I ... but at the moment, there is nothing to stop her from keeping the children & not returning them at the end of a visit. If she did that, your partner would presumably start custody proceedings to get them returned.

even with a Residence Order there is nothing to stop her not returning the children at the end of contact and he would need to go to court to retreive them as unless he could convice the police that the children were at risk in some way, they wouldn't help out.

OP - you do need to tread carefully with this. Your partner does technically need her permission and if she gets wind of you being out of the country, she can shout 'kidnap' and with a half decent solicitor on her side, your holiday will be interrupted by the local police in Portugal and you will be forced to return to the UK early. Perhaps more importantly, he might struggle to look 'good' in court if she made it clear that he wasn't to take the children out of the country.

Your partner's best course of action is to contact her formally and ask for permission. If she refuses it (or doesn't respond) then it needs to go to court for a Specific Issues Order. The Families Need Fathers website will help with this - it is straightforward and the courts are not in the habit of preventing holidays.

Although a Residence Order would allow him to go abroad for up to 28 days without her permission, if contact is working and there are no concerns about the children in her care, I would urge caution in dragging things through court for the sake of it. It will do nothing for what are clearly already fragile relations.

Oli.s

I would speak with a solicitor and clarify the legal position, then go to the police station before you go, in both your area and the area the ex lives in, tell them what you are doing and that you expect her to make a false allegation of kidnap.

That way they will know the situation as soon as she calls instead of only having her made up story until you return to the country, and wont have to waste time tracking you down and treating her false allegation as genuine.

balletshoes

19lottie82 wrote: »

We thought of somewhere in the UK too but our budget is pretty limited and the flights to Portugal are pretty cheap, we wouldn't have any accommodation costs and we can self cater.

I understand what you are saying about waiting but tbh I don't think it would make any difference. I have been with my OH (and the girls) for three years now and she has always been like this, I can't see her getting any better.

forgetting about the legal aspect for a moment - whats going to make the girls more upset, you not going and them going on holiday to Portugal with their Dad (I know you said your OH won't consider this, but hoping he might see it from his daughters' point of view) or you going with them and the girls getting an earful from their mother when she finds out about it?

19lottie82

Valli wrote: »

And when it goes to court it migt well be his word against hers. However, given the ages of the girls their wishes might be taken into consideration.

There are plenty of medical, police and social work records backing to prove everything I have listed, so there's no chance of that.

Also I know for a fact that the girls wouldn't want to leave their dad.

But yes I know you're all right about getting the formalities put into place, I will speak to my OH about it tomorrow and get him to look into his options.

I googled Mckenzie friends but I don't know if they are active in Scotland, I can't find any info about it online. Can anyone advise?

Thanks!

balletshoes

Valli wrote: »

But, given that she is now in recovery she might well be planning, at some point, to apply for custody.

The change in her behaviour alone would be an indicator, to me, that it is time for formal arrangements to be in place.

this is a really valid point OP - I also think its time to get this on a formal footing. The girls are still very young, you could have this nonsense going on for years yet.