slow drivers

custardy

martinthebandit wrote: »

In the opinion of the driver doing 45 in a 60 limit, who else would know the reason why?

...... and the point of caps was so people understood I was referring to when the driver in question knew it was safe to do so.

So we are back to it being down to the driver to decide the appropriate speed?
good good

martinthebandit

custardy wrote: »

So we are back to it being down to the driver to decide the appropriate speed?
good good

Unfortunately we seem to be no closer to discovering why a driver would consider it an appropriate speed.

brat

martinthebandit wrote: »

Unfortunately we seem to be no closer to discovering why a driver would consider it an appropriate speed.

On the contrary, I believe we've found several good reasons.

• Motorists who drive at that speed because it suits their ability.
• Older motorists tend to drive more slowly because of increased 'react and respond' times, and increasing awareness of diminishing abilities.
• Motorists who drive at that speed because they are in no hurry.
• Fuel economy - 45mph provides better economy than 60mph
• Sunday drivers, enjoying a leisurely drive out.
• Drivers being tailgated, who heed advice and slow down a little
• Drivers who don't want to end up in a queue behind the next HGV ahead.
• Drivers with nervous passengers or fragile cargo.

I've no doubt there are many other decent reasons, but most of the above reasons have already populated this thread, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are the majority of reasons why a person may consider their slower speed appropriate to their circumstance.

Do you feel you are missing a reason? Do you feel there's a slow driver conspiracy against those who would drive more quickly?

Do you feel that any of the above reasons for driving at 40/45mph rather than 60mph could or should be considered to be criminally inconsiderate?

steve-L

• The speed of 40 mph may be the optimum speed for the vehicle user (not their maximum speed capability). This optimum speed is user dependant and is generally recognised to be the safest speed. As we age, this comfortable speed will decrease as our abilities gradually diminish. Is it right that we suggest such drivers should be banned from such roads, or be prosecuted for trying to be as safe as they can?

[*]Such a prosecution would be considered ageist, and rightly so.

Once someones ability to drive has diminished to a point then they should no longer be entitled to drive on the roads.
Where exactly that point is, that is a matter that can be more difficult to determine.

We quite sensibly discriminate against people who drink and drive yet there are plenty of elderly people who drive who's ability is impeded more than someone who has been drinking more than the limit.

However, its not simply age, people get get disease at any point.

Someone who can only safely do 45 on a NSL is not only a danger in this situation but in all driving situations.

Still, I can see (as a community) why we don't want to pull people's license unless we have to.... yet there is equally the safety of other road users to consider.

Perhaps the biggest factor as to when this is should be the person recognising that their senses and ability to drive are diminished.

If that person simply claims that 45 'is the safe speed on this road' and 'everyone else is going too quickly' then they have not recognised that their senses and perception are the problem.

spacey2012

The best way to gauge driving skills is by the risk you pose to others.
You can do this by obtaining the opinion of experts, they are called insurance companies.
They will soon show who is the "best" driver.

brat

steve-L wrote: »

Once someones ability to drive has diminished to a point then they should no longer be entitled to drive on the roads.
Where exactly that point is, that is a matter that can be more difficult to determine.

We quite sensibly discriminate against people who drink and drive yet there are plenty of elderly people who drive who's ability is impeded more than someone who has been drinking more than the limit.

However, its not simply age, people get get disease at any point.

Someone who can only safely do 45 on a NSL is not only a danger in this situation but in all driving situations.

Still, I can see (as a community) why we don't want to pull people's license unless we have to.... yet there is equally the safety of other road users to consider.

Perhaps the biggest factor as to when this is should be the person recognising that their senses and ability to drive are diminished.

If that person simply claims that 45 'is the safe speed on this road' and 'everyone else is going too quickly' then they have not recognised that their senses and perception are the problem.

I'm talking about a speed that they feel comfortable with (their 85th percentile speed), not their maximum achievable speed. An older person often drives to the speed of the slower vehicles, because they see no need to stress themselves by going any faster. They may well do 40-45 on an NSL and have no issue with that, because they're driving at the same speed as the HGVs. They may only do 55mph on the motorway for the same reason, because they know that if they do 60 they'll have to overtake HGVs and become middle lane hoggers.

I agree there comes a point when older drivers have to hang up their car keys, and if they're pootling along at 25-30mph on an open road because they feel unsafe going any faster, then I'd argue that their time has come. However if they're doing 40 to 45mph because they feel a bit less comfortable at 55-60mph then we should grant them a bit of understanding and tolerance.

steve-L

brat wrote: »

I'm talking about a speed that they feel comfortable with (their 85th percentile speed), not their maximum achievable speed. An older person often drives to the speed of the slower vehicles, because they see no need to stress themselves by going any faster. They may well do 40-45 on an NSL and have no issue with that, because they're driving at the same speed as the HGVs. They may only do 55mph on the motorway for the same reason, because they know that if they do 60 they'll have to overtake HGVs and become middle lane hoggers.

I agree there comes a point when older drivers have to hang up their car keys, and if they're pootling along at 25-30mph on an open road because they feel unsafe going any faster, then I'd argue that their time has come. However if they're doing 40 to 45mph because they feel a bit less comfortable at 55-60mph then we should grant them a bit of understanding and tolerance.

It seems we substantially agree ......
My take is if 45 is their 85th %ile then if its a long long stretch of single lane NSL with no safe passing places they can make some effort into their 90th%ile. The biggest issue is they need to recognise that this 85th %ile is THEM.... they are not the police and courts to decide that 'this road is safe at 45 mph and anyone wanting to go faster in the NSL is going too quickly'.

If they can recognise and admit to themselves that their faculties no longer reach the required standard to pass a test then they can act considerately to others drivers who as yet have the required faculties. We as society might feel that their experience and age demand some respect and let them keep driving even though they would fail a test.

Compare this to the boy racer who fails the test for over confidence and lack of experience. The boy/girl-racer can actually improve, learn etc. and by re-taking their test improve but the person with diminished faculties is not going to improve.... making them re-sit their test will just show they have not got the faculties.

My other issue is that a fair percent of them are all round terrible drivers. They may be doing 45 round a bend and then brake in the actual bend. If they are driving a Jag with 10J wheels that's all well and good for them but its not so good for the guy or gal behind in the HGV or Corsa who by braking in the corner to keep a safe distance pushes the envelope of their safety.

The same drivers often seem blissfully unaware they have developed a long queue behind them who must now all shuffle and brake to maintain a safe distance.

In the same way they then get to a town on the same road and continue at 40mph.... where I with my presumably in place faculties might need to drive at 20.

(This actually happened to me on Saturday) ... the driver who had been doing 40 in the NSL then continued at 40 through the town and ran a amber/red light in the process.
The town was busy with people getting in and out of cars and I had to slow to 20....

I also had my 3yr old in the back.... I wasn't out to tear !!!! about. 5 minutes out of town and me gong at NSL I catch up with the same car still doing 40....

Norman_Castle

martinthebandit wrote: »

Unfortunately we seem to be no closer to discovering why a driver would consider it an appropriate speed.

Unfortunately you seem to be no closer to discovering why a driver would consider it an appropriate speed.
It's because it is an appropriate speed.

Please don't chose an option for me.

Norman_Castle

they are not the police and courts to decide that 'this road is safe at 45 mph and anyone wanting to go faster in the NSL is going too quickly'.

Unless they are preventing overtaking where possible they are not policing the roads

We as society might feel that their experience and age demand some respect

As a society of motorists, should we allow drivers who want to drive at the maximum legal limit dictate minimum speeds.

aintshesweet

The only time I don't drive the speed limit is if I can't actually see. You know, people driving towards me in the dark, with full beams or those stupid too bright angel headlights.

I'd say it's fair enough to slow down if I can't SEE anything...

That, or it's bucketing down, and again, I can't see properly even with the wipers on full blast, and the roads are wet increasing my brake time.

Around sharp bends, especially in the dark, I'd rather keep within my side of the road, and not, you know, potentially crash head-on to another car on a country road.

The only other time I drive slower than the limit, and when others might just think I'm being annoying, is if I am aware there is a problem with the car, in which case I'd be on edge the whole time... usually I do put the hazards on though, if I'm driving to a garage or trying to find a safe place to stop. Or, if I'm transporting very breakable goods.