NEED ADVICE URGENTLY regarding pre-school incident

clearingout

johnnyl wrote: »

ah, more school hypocrisy. And people wonder why I moan.

Lets ask ourselves this, If a child rolled up to school full of paint one day, wet through with pee on another day and with bite marks on a 3rd day what would happen to the parent? What would be the teachers / schools opinion of that parent?

I dont really need to answer that question - we all know the answer. It is only fair when the reverse happens, that it is also deemed unacceptable.

You would expect a parent to change a child before sending them to preschool. You don't expect a preschool to do anything other than take reasonable precautions that a child is covered when painting. Usually that means that paint goes everywhere. Most paint will come off in the wash and if it doesn't, you learn the valuable lesson of sending your child to preschool in clothes that don't matter to you. You certainly don't expect the preschool to change your child because they've got some paint on them.

Being wet through isn't good, I agree. But it can happen in an instant and isn't an indicator that a child has been left like that for hours. It is pretty usual that children wet themselves in the early years - usually because they're having so much fun, they miss the warning signs. Staff will keep an eye out for 'dancing' but not all children will 'dance' when desperate. And dragging a child to the loo against it's will would be abusive, wouldn't it?

Bite marks are perhaps more serious. But again, it's one of those things you can only stop as it happens, it can be difficult to prevent. The nursery staff will learn which children cause a problem for other children, what triggers are etc. and deal with things but with the best will in the world, they won't prevent every bump or bruise or hitting incident. And anyone with more than one young child will know this happens....

lolavix

It sounds like you're being upset may be affecting him, he'll pick up on your feelings and it sounds like you are overreacting slightly, it is just part of being a kid.

johnnyl

clearingout wrote: »

You would expect a parent to change a child before sending them to preschool. You don't expect a preschool to do anything other than take reasonable precautions that a child is covered when painting. Usually that means that paint goes everywhere. Most paint will come off in the wash and if it doesn't, you learn the valuable lesson of sending your child to preschool in clothes that don't matter to you. You certainly don't expect the preschool to change your child because they've got some paint on them.

Being wet through isn't good, I agree. But it can happen in an instant and isn't an indicator that a child has been left like that for hours. It is pretty usual that children wet themselves in the early years - usually because they're having so much fun, they miss the warning signs. Staff will keep an eye out for 'dancing' but not all children will 'dance' when desperate. And dragging a child to the loo against it's will would be abusive, wouldn't it?

Bite marks are perhaps more serious. But again, it's one of those things you can only stop as it happens, it can be difficult to prevent. The nursery staff will learn which children cause a problem for other children, what triggers are etc. and deal with things but with the best will in the world, they won't prevent every bump or bruise or hitting incident. And anyone with more than one young child will know this happens....

all I'd expect is consistency.

valk_scot

My DS1 and another child used to take turns biting each other in pre-school nursery. I used to meet the other child's mum going in and we'd be guessing who had bitten who that day. The boys are 16 now and best friends. They still clout each other now and again.

DD used to come home from nursery covered in paint at least once a week. She loved painting, it was wonderfully messy and she made the most of it. Some days there would be spangles, glue and glitter. Once she and another child managed to glue their hair together.

Bumps happened every week too, for all my three. Bumping into other kids or into furniture is common at that age.

Both my DSs used to wet themselves now and again at pre-school, usually when they were too busy to remember to go to the loo. The staff just used to change them into kit from a big pile of donated clothing that was passed in by the mums when their kids grew out of things. It was easier than having to go chasing after specific clothing and it was regarded as best to treat all the children the same.

Our pre-school (three years and up) did not allow children to attend untill they were out of nappies. The odd accident was expected but if a child turned up in nappies the mother was asked to reconsider the start date for her child. So you saying that your son needs his nappies changed sounds unusual to me tbh. Could it be that the staff are not really expecting to have to change nappies and so not checking them as often as they would for smaller children?

And the wipes? They most likely just got overlooked when they were packing up his wet stuff, or were thought to be the nursery ones. Easily done.


Having said all that if your child has suddenly become terrified of going to nursery then it's time for a talk with the staff. Remain calm though, most of what you're saying has happened is absolutely normal. Your attitude in tackling it will set the tone for your son's response, if you get upset and angry then he'll get more worried. Calm and matter of fact works best. "I just sobbed and sobbed and sobbed" in the car will scare the bejezus out of him tbh and confirm in his mind that nursery is a terrifying place. Paint and donated clothes don't matter, the odd bump is to be expected and if you're calm about it he'll barely notice the incident tbh. Mum having a weeping fit in the car though is pretty horrific for a small child and it's not surprising he doesn't want to go to nursery in case something happens to upset you again.

pesky85

I think some of the comments on here are quite harsh - I don't think the OP is overreacting. It's a normal mother's instinct to be distressed when they believe their child is unhappy / not being cared for properly.

Definitely speak to the preschool about your son seeming scared to go in. They can keep an eye on him and should tell you honestly how he gets along there after drop-off.

I would relax on the paint thing though Always send him in clothes you don't mind getting messy. I tend to think the messier my DS comes out of playgroup, the more fun and creativity he has had. We don't often get paints out at home so I'm glad he does at playgroup.

Also trust that the aggressive child is being dealt with - chances are he has hit / bitten more children than just your son and his behaviour is already being monitored.

thegirlintheattic

I think you are over reacting.

Paint - your DS had fun and got messy, all part of the fun of being a kid. Just make sure you don't send him in in 'good' clothes.

Wipes - Probably got forgotten whilst looking after your DS. I wouldn't worry about it, as you said yourself it's only £1. If it becomes a regular thing then mention it.

Accident - should have told you but assuming you turned up when most kids were going home, it might have been overlooked, particularly if the accident was in the morning. No harm done, maybe mention tomorrow "Did DS have an accident?"

Biting - quite common in pre-school but usually stops. Probably just a coincidence that it was with the same child as the hit head. I have a feeling that your DS's reaction could be stemming from your reaction. Kids are very perceptive. If this reaction continues maybe have a word with nursery about doing half-days and resettling him.

Nicki

freddiesmum09 wrote: »

With regard to the biting incident which is my main concern - I understand that kids hit/bite eachother. My DS has had a few occasions where this has happened, and where hes hit another child which I have also been informed about. .

You may want to clarify your stance with respect to expressing your view that the child with "learning difficulties" oughtn't to be there or needs 1:1 as a danger to others in light of this.

Are you saying it is OK that your child has done exactly the same as the other child because he was lucky enough to pick different victims each time? Or that it is OK because he understands it is wrong to do it (but still does it as 3 years old do)?

Most heads and teachers take a dim view of parents victimising other children and trying to force them out of mainstream because they have additional needs, and most parents of children who do have additional needs need the support of pre-school (with attendant services such as EP and SLT which are hard sometimes to access out of a preschool setting due to funding cuts) a darn sight more than parents of "perfect" children.

My suggestion would be that if you would rather not expose your child to other children with learning difficulties that you consider either home educating or selective private education, as there are a lot of children with additional needs around and not very many special schools, hence every state mainstream school and most preschools will have several such children on the roll. And those children have every bit as much right as your child to be there.

skintchick

My thoughts:

On paint, I understand that preschools here only provide aprons, btu they reply on the children remembering to use them, which of course they don't. DD is often covered in paint, I have now segregated her clothes so only ones I don;t mind getting ruined go to preschool, as the paint used at hers just does not come out.

Toileting - again, they rely on the children going by themselves, which sometimes means DD holds it all day then is bursting before we can get home. Drives me nuts, not least because of the likelihood of a UTI, but it's about getting them to be independent (at 2/3! Inappropriate IMO but not a huge issue as my DD is able to go on her own if she chooses to).

our preschool also rarely tells us about any incidents at all. I find it annoying, but it's how it is.

Biting is very common, usually among younger children. How old is your DS? My DD is 3.5 and there's no biting at her preschool but my friends' younger kids at nursery have a bigger issue with it.

mumps

There are bites and bites. Drawing blood is quite a bite and I would be furious. I have four (all grown up now) and accepted kids get hurt, dirty and have accidents. I have never had to deal with a bite so severe that it drew blood with my four or my grandchildren. In my opinion a child who is capable of inflicting that sort of injury should be very closely supervised at all times. I would be asking what measures are being put in place to ensure your child is safe.

I should add one of mine was a biter, he bit once at nursery, and one of my grandchildren was a biter, he thought his aunt was very tasty. They never drew blood, never even got close and I thought they were horrors for biting, I would have been mortified if they had actually inflicted this sort of injury.

Make-it-3

Do speak to the nursery OP, because you are upset and its better to get these things out in the open. When we bottle things up we tend to start looking for other minor things to justify the reasoning for our upset.

As others have said paint covered clothes are a fact of life. I happened to joke today with my LO's keyworker about understanding what all those washing powder ads are about now and she said that if one child doesn't want to put their apron on the others often follow suit.

Clearing up wee accidents, losing wipes, putting on wrong spare clothes you just have to accept that things might not be done exactly the way you would like. It would be impossible for them to remember every parent's preferences as long as they had taken steps to deal with the problem. And haven't you sometimes not noticed a poo till later, they don't all smell nasty and if they happen straight after a scheduled change (as annoyingly they often do).

That leaves the biting incidents which is the one thing that seems to have disturbed your son. It is unlikely the child in question is deliberately targeting your child (even tit-for-tat is unlike at this age as kids tend not hold grudges) and it is likely the nursery are aware of the child's behaviour - but they can sometimes make too many allowances to integrate a problem child.

So be calm, but firm, your son is upset about attending nursery, you want him to feel safe there and what are they doing to address these issues. See what their responses are and take it from there.