MONEY MORAL DILEMMA: Should Frodo give Sam the money?

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Money Saving Polls
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  • NessieP_2NessieP_2 Forumite
    2 Posts
    macwise wrote: »
    :beer: Hmm I've been pondering this very subject recently as I have been lumbered with an integrated double oven I can't use and need to find an alternative buyer as the seller won't take it back. The seller is a friend/aquaintance and was selling it at a very good price (£200 and never been used). I bought it in good faith but then discovered that due to an electrical problem in my kitchen I couldn't use it and had to buy a gas oven instead (which cost me £300 so £500 spent so far).

    I thought this friend would take it back as I was sure he could easily find another buyer for such a bargain and he'd have more space to store it. However, he says he can't and now I need to find someone to buy it PDQ.

    My dilemma is, do I try to get a bit more for it as I'm sure I could get £250 for it and if so do I split the profit with him?:confused:

    Why would you even think of splitting any profit with your friend/aquaintance? It no linger belongs to him. It's YOURS to do with as YOU wish. Smash it with a hammer in fustration if that suits you or store it in YOUR garage until you find a suitable buyer. Find you local FRIDAY-ADS or go online to their website. There's not much that doesn't sell quickly. Last year i would phone ads the next day and they'd be gone. You can even advertise online with Friday-ads. And why not ask for £300ono and let them knock you down a bit. Then you'd recoop the money you had to shell out for the gas oven.. he he...:beer:
  • barri_2barri_2 Forumite
    23 Posts
    Frodo should keep the money, but not tell Sam about it. Then he keeps Sam's friendship too. Barri.
  • DenariaDenaria Forumite
    7 Posts
    But at the point Frodo re-sold it it didn't belong to him. He didn't get the owner (Sam's) permission beforehand to wheeler-deal it, but at least he was honest in admitting what he had done after, so: he should either hand over all the money or split it 50/50.
  • AndregAndreg Forumite
    95 Posts
    10 Posts
    This isnt a moral dilemma, its a legal one. The question is, does Sam own the ticket or Frodo? If Frodo expected Sam to pay for the ticket, in the event that he failed to find a buyer for it, then this would indicate Sam is the owner of the ticket and should therefore take the profit (but maybe pay Frodo a brokerage fee for finding the buyer). Alternatively, if Frodo was the one facing the loss, he has every right to keep the profit.
  • nathanhill69nathanhill69 Forumite
    217 Posts
    The original scenario states that Sam gave Frodo the money in ADVANCE to purchase the ticket - therefore the ticket surely belongs to Sam.

    Sam then asked Frodo if he is able to sell the ticket, which he did at £40.00 profit, so unless they agreed anything different the £40.00 profit must surely belong to the original owner of the ticket i.e. Sam. If Frodo had only been able to sell it at a loss then Sam would have been expected to absorb the loss, so it cuts the other way, if it's sold at a profit he should absorb the profit. Remember, Frodo would never have been able to make and keep any profit IF Sam had not put up the orginal money to purchase the ticket.

    However, they are supposedly Friends, therefore you would hope as Friends they would split the profit and they are both happy - Sam makes an unexpected £20.00 which is partial compensation for missing the gig and Frodo gets £20.00 for his efforts which he can offset against the cost of his ticket.

    Alternatively, with Sams agreement, give Sam back the cost of the ticket and then use the £40.00 profit for the Ale fund for both Frodo and Pippin to enjoy at the gig - then everyone should be happy and ALL the friends have come out of the situation feeling positive.

    Friends are for helping one another out and not for using to make a quick profit - My God, reading some of the responses on this thread I'm glad a lot of you aren't friends of mine - talk about a "Pull the ladder up, I'm alright Jack" attitude.
  • Voyager2002Voyager2002 Forumite
    14.5K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
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    Sam provided the necessary capital; Frodo did all the work. However, had Frodo failed to find a buyer, Sam would have lost his original stake.

    Sam, therefore, was the capitalist who took all the risk of this enterprise and so should receive the profit. Frodo should be content with whatever wage he was offered: he did after all agree to work on that basis.

    If anyone thinks differently, and believes that people who do the work should share in the profits they make, well, that person is a Red and should be locked up for many years.
  • nealnomoneynealnomoney Forumite
    161 Posts
    Frodo should have sold the ticket, made the £40 profit and then said " hard luck sam i couldnt get your ticket sold. Sam is a loser.
  • grayme-mgrayme-m Forumite
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    Sam provided the necessary capital; Frodo did all the work. However, had Frodo failed to find a buyer, Sam would have lost his original stake.

    Sam, therefore, was the capitalist who took all the risk of this enterprise and so should receive the profit. Frodo should be content with whatever wage he was offered: he did after all agree to work on that basis.

    If anyone thinks differently, and believes that people who do the work should share in the profits they make, well, that person is a Red and should be locked up for many years.

    Lock me up then! :p

    I'd have offered to go halves on the profit. If Sam insisted on all the profit then I'd give it him and seriously consider how I interacted with him in the future.

    All this talk of legal this and that, if Sam faced a loss of all (on his own) or a profit of half with Frodo's help...?
    Toyota - 'Always a better way', avoid buying Toyota.
  • emily_jacksonemily_jackson Forumite
    1.7K Posts
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker I've been Money Tipped!
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    assuming ticket touting is legal, frodo should keep the money. sam's got his money back that he paid for the ticket. frodo went to the trouble of buying tickets in the first place. the ticket was frodo's after sam said he couldn't go to the gig, so frodo is allowed to sell it. plus, he did all the hard work by selling it
  • RedzimRedzim Forumite
    7 Posts
    All Sam did was flake on an arrangement, why should he profit from that? The crux is that Frodo, when he agreed to sell on the ticket, shouldered the risk that it might not sell and he would end up with a spare ticket and out of pocket. He took the job on and made a profit.
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