Immigrants & Benefits

GeorgeHowell

BertieUK wrote: »

With my limited knowledge of the technical workings of the EU we should be able to make a choice of who we wish to be resident here and not be an open doorway.

Just the opinion of an Old Codger.

That may be what we should be able to do, but it certainly is not what we can do, under EU regulations. Free movement is a fundamental principle.

What we have to do for them when they get here is another matter and obviously a very confused picture. That we should be able to change, but I doubt that the backbone and political will is there to take on the LibDems and the left in general. We already hear the defeatist talk along the lines -- we don't know how many are coming -- but they're coming !

tesuhoha

gorgeyetsun wrote: »

Quite so. You therefore didn't need to throw in the 'Polish workers living in tents' story in order to make your point about gas suppliers.

Yet I must say that when you want a job done surely you expect the tradesman to have all the right qualifications, tools and equipment to do the job? This all costs money and if the person is to supply all these and make a living then you have to pay not the most expensive price, but the going rate. Anyone who tries to undercut to the most cheapest is likely to be making cutbacks on your job, maybe using inferior materials etc. This is what they are doing on building sites, cutting back on materials and employing immigrants to undercut the prices.

However, the quality of their work was not my main point, although on building sites they are not generally recognised as good tradesmen.

It has been claimed on this thread that there are a shortage of workers and migrants are needed to fill the role. I was pointing out that there never was a shortage of skilled tradesmen, i.e. plumbers and many are out of work now due to being undercut. Imagine if Australia requested English construction workers, saying there was a shortage and then gave them jobs and paid them less than the Australian tradesmen, putting the the Australians out of work. That is what has happened here.

Wages in the building industry have fallen drastically and yet the house prices are still as high. Someone is making a lot of money. You might say that is good, construction workers were overpaid, but now the same money is being charged for the houses but the building companies are raking in even higher profits and making extortionate amounts of money.

robmatic

tesuhoha wrote: »

... You might say good, construction workers were overpaid, but now the same money is being charged for the houses but the building companies are raking in even higher profits and making massive profits.

Except that the building companies aren't actually making big profits.

tesuhoha

robmatic wrote: »

Except that the building companies aren't actually making big profits.

So where is the money going? My husband earns less than half what he did in 2000 and they are cutting back on materials to build houses. Yet the house prices are higher now than they were then. Someone is raking it in.

BertieUK

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

That may be what we should be able to do, but it certainly is not what we can do, under EU regulations. Free movement is a fundamental principle.

What we have to do for them when they get here is another matter and obviously a very confused picture. That we should be able to change, but I doubt that the backbone and political will is there to take on the LibDems and the left in general. We already hear the defeatist talk along the lines -- we don't know how many are coming -- but they're coming !

If the conditions that we have to adhere to are not now a fair reflection of what they were when we first joined, because elements are changing daily, then perhaps our Government should try for a change in these conditions, and then consider if it would be an advantage to remain within the EU long term. I realise that rules must be seen to be the same across the board and not in favour of one and not th other. I do not envy anyone trying to negotiate a conditional deal and as you say a very confused picture. Lets hope that someting can be sorted out

GeorgeHowell

BertieUK wrote: »

If the conditions that we have to adhere to are not now a fair reflection of what they were when we first joined, because elements are changing daily, then perhaps our Government should try for a change in these conditions, and then consider if it would be an advantage to remain within the EU long term. I realise that rules must be seen to be the same across the board and not in favour of one and not th other. I do not envy anyone trying to negotiate a conditional deal and as you say a very confused picture. Lets hope that someting can be sorted out

I guess that's what they are intending to attempt. The ray of hope is that events may force the Euro-core into a de facto federal economy sooner rather than later. That would be a game-changer in terms of the need for across the board consistency, since all the non-Euro states would have alarm bells ringing in their minds at the risk of being swamped by a superstate that will likely vote en bloc on everything. The EU might try to keep the shackles on some countries where they feel there is a chance to suck them into it at a later date. But hopefully they will view us as a lost cause and give up the struggle to resist us for the sake of a quiet life.

BertieUK

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

I guess that's what they are intending to attempt. The ray of hope is that events may force the Euro-core into a de facto federal economy sooner rather than later. That would be a game-changer in terms of the need for across the board consistency, since all the non-Euro states would have alarm bells ringing in their minds at the risk of being swamped by a superstate that will likely vote en bloc on everything. The EU might try to keep the shackles on some countries where they feel there is a chance to suck them into it at a later date. But hopefully they will view us as a lost cause and give up the struggle to resist us for the sake of a quiet life.

George... I think that in the far beyond Winston Churchill will be looking down upon us and frowning at what we have got ourselves into with the EU...

...didn't I read somewhere that Winston Churchill said that he favoured the creation of a United Europe but was adamant that Britain should cooperate with it but not be absorbed by it owing to our special relationship with Commonwealth countries and the USA.

Maybe his party should maybe take a moment to recall Winston's words.

Sampong

Polish Immigrants guide to fleecing "soft" Britain

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2597525/Polish-immigrants-guide-to-fleecing-soft-Britain.html

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

ash28

tesuhoha wrote: »

My husband was telling me about the few building sites that are left. The price of property is really high but the building costs are being massively cut back on new build sites everywhere and the profit is being creamed off at the top by big business and banks. The large building companies are doing this in two ways:

They are cutting back massively on materials for instance, bathrooms are only being partly tiled, one row above basins and the bare minimum above baths. They are cutting back on the quality of materials used and on things like insulation. Yet house prices are just as high.

You would think all this profit was going to the tradesmen. Think again. British tradesmen are gradually disappearing from building sites. They are finding they cannot afford to work there because of being undercut by foreign workers (who are producing substandard work and if there is a problem they can disappear into the sunset, being completely untraceable). If British tradesmen have a mortgage, trade membership and a van to upkeep then it is not doable. These foreign workers share houses with 10 or more other people and are bussed to work in minibuses.

Also their training is paid for by the Government whereas English tradesmen have to pay their own fees. For instance my husband has to renew his Gas Safe Registration every 5 years. It costs around £2,000 with all his different qualifications. On most courses there are EU immigrants who are on the course for free, yet there is NO SHORTAGE of plumbers. That is a complete myth. There are many English plumbers looking for work after being put out of work by immigrants. I know as my husband is one of them and I know of many others who cannot find work.

The banks love immigration because all the money is being creamed off by the fat-arsed spongers at the top. Its true that the poor are getting poorer and the rich, richer. The banks are using immigration to do this. Its total bullshiit that the British are lazy. We are the ones that fought for what we have now in this country, we built the country up. Look at how this country was at the end of the 2nd World War and then say we are lazy. It wasn't immigrants that made this country a rich country. This lazy British thing is a myth that big business is putting around to justify extensive immigration.

My son works in the building trade, sometimes on housing sites, sometimes private work and sometimes listed building restoration work and sometimes commercial work.

He is a carpenter. He told me a few years ago that they used to get Eastern Europeans turning up on site for work - his type of work - they would turn up with a few cheap power tools - £30 drill from B&Q for example. They didn't get taken on - to be able to work on site they have to have stuff like a compressor, decent professional drills + spare batteries/chop saw/router/nail gun etc, the chop saw for instance cost almost £700 - in general, I imagine most people doing the same job as him have spent several thousands of pounds on tools and equipment. And you can't work without them.

He currently does a lot of commercial work. His wages haven't really changed - they often get paid by the day and currently he earns about £150 a day. When house building was in full swing he could earn between £1000 and £1600 a week on piece work - paid by the house on 2nd fixings. Some builders paid by the day and some by the house. He prefers the day rate.

A friend of his is a taper and jointer and has left the building trade because he can't live on the current wages - his work has been seriously undercut by Eastern Europeans - but they need little in the way of equipment. He now works for Rail Track or whatever they are called now.

I would think some trades have been more affected than others and of course where you live must have a bearing on it too. He is in the south east and hasn't had any real problems in getting work - sometimes he has had to get the phone book out, go from site to site and occasionally use an agency.