Flight Delay Compensation, Lufthansa Only

Caz3121

conor1993 wrote: »

Checked both websites, euclaim reckoned I don't have a case and bottonline stated the case was outside of their jurisdiction, so not looking good unfortunately. I might contact Lufthansa directly anyway using one of the templates provided on this website.

the exception to needing 3 hours delay to qualify for compensation would be when the original flight is cancelled at short notice and you are placed on another flight that gets you there over 2 hours late. No EU261 for your delay but agree you will be able to claim for reimbursement of refreshments

stevekm1982

Hi, I am looking for advice with regards to an ongoing claim that I have with Lufthansa. My flight was cancelled whilst I was at the gate in Munich (literally the time it was due to take off). I was offered a flight to Geneva and then a flight from there home the next morning. As a result I incurred the additional cost of an overnight hotel, evening meal, breakfast and also additional parking charges (£88!!). In total my expenses were almost £300.

I have written to Lufthansa about this and their initial response was to offer me 170 euros. I followed it up with a further email utilising the template on MSE and they have now offered me 260euros. I am now not sure how to proceed, as the amount suggests they have offered me the general delay compensation but this doesn’t even cover my expenses. 

Below is some of the wording in their response:

This claim for reimbursement of consequential costs - parking charges are not recoverable in accordance with our General Terms and Conditions of Carriage, according to which, pursuant to Art. 14.1.7, liability for consequential damages is excluded unless caused by gross negligence or willful misconduct, but also already in the absence of any fault.  

 

Gross negligence or even intent is obviously ruled out in the given circumstances. Also, such damages are not covered by the protective purpose of the contract of carriage (and would ultimately also be credited to the compensation payments).  

 

Of course, our decision was made after assessing carefully considering the legal liability along with goodwill considerations. Therefore, we kindly request your understanding that we choose to uphold our decision and consider the case closed. 

eskbanker

stevekm1982 said:

Hi, I am looking for advice with regards to an ongoing claim that I have with Lufthansa. My flight was cancelled whilst I was at the gate in Munich (literally the time it was due to take off). I was offered a flight to Geneva and then a flight from there home the next morning. As a result I incurred the additional cost of an overnight hotel, evening meal, breakfast and also additional parking charges (£88!!). In total my expenses were almost £300.

I have written to Lufthansa about this and their initial response was to offer me 170 euros. I followed it up with a further email utilising the template on MSE and they have now offered me 260euros. I am now not sure how to proceed, as the amount suggests they have offered me the general delay compensation but this doesn’t even cover my expenses. 

Below is some of the wording in their response:

This claim for reimbursement of consequential costs - parking charges are not recoverable in accordance with our General Terms and Conditions of Carriage, according to which, pursuant to Art. 14.1.7, liability for consequential damages is excluded unless caused by gross negligence or willful misconduct, but also already in the absence of any fault.

The general compensation figure is €250, so they must have some other calculation to give the offered figure - the fixed tariff compensation available under the regulations only applies if the cancellation wasn't caused by extraordinary circumstances beyond the airline's control, so do you know why the flight was cancelled?

Regardless of cause, they're obliged to reroute you and if this involved an overnight stay then they are required to pay for this (and meals), so perhaps this is what the amount represents?

As they correctly say, the regulations don't oblige them to pay consequential losses such as extra parking charges - if you claimed 'almost £300', including £88 of extra parking, then does €260 approximate to the other items?  Ask them for a detailed breakdown if it's unclear....

stevekm1982

eskbanker said:

stevekm1982 said:

Hi, I am looking for advice with regards to an ongoing claim that I have with Lufthansa. My flight was cancelled whilst I was at the gate in Munich (literally the time it was due to take off). I was offered a flight to Geneva and then a flight from there home the next morning. As a result I incurred the additional cost of an overnight hotel, evening meal, breakfast and also additional parking charges (£88!!). In total my expenses were almost £300.

I have written to Lufthansa about this and their initial response was to offer me 170 euros. I followed it up with a further email utilising the template on MSE and they have now offered me 260euros. I am now not sure how to proceed, as the amount suggests they have offered me the general delay compensation but this doesn’t even cover my expenses. 

Below is some of the wording in their response:

This claim for reimbursement of consequential costs - parking charges are not recoverable in accordance with our General Terms and Conditions of Carriage, according to which, pursuant to Art. 14.1.7, liability for consequential damages is excluded unless caused by gross negligence or willful misconduct, but also already in the absence of any fault.

The general compensation figure is €250, so they must have some other calculation to give the offered figure - the fixed tariff compensation available under the regulations only applies if the cancellation wasn't caused by extraordinary circumstances beyond the airline's control, so do you know why the flight was cancelled?

Regardless of cause, they're obliged to reroute you and if this involved an overnight stay then they are required to pay for this (and meals), so perhaps this is what the amount represents?

As they correctly say, the regulations don't oblige them to pay consequential losses such as extra parking charges - if you claimed 'almost £300', including £88 of extra parking, then does €260 approximate to the other items?  Ask them for a detailed breakdown if it's unclear....

Thanks for your response, that’s really helpful. 
In answer to your questions:

1) the reason given for the cancellation was the weather conditions. However I did dispute this in my second response to them as I did research and there were other flights that did that route (or similar routes ) that evening (albeit with some delays). Also because at the gate when they cancelled it they said it was because of the delay and them not being able to get another slot (perhaps due to weather).

2) the amount offered is pretty much the other costs incurred, some of it was in Swiss francs so maybe be slightly different because of conversion, minus the parking. 

eskbanker

stevekm1982 said:

1) the reason given for the cancellation was the weather conditions. However I did dispute this in my second response to them as I did research and there were other flights that did that route (or similar routes ) that evening (albeit with some delays). Also because at the gate when they cancelled it they said it was because of the delay and them not being able to get another slot (perhaps due to weather).

It does sound like the underlying root cause would have been weather-related then, even if it ultimately manifested itself in reduced slot availability and the like - there are sometimes informed insiders posting on these boards, who can offer insight into conditions and ATC restrictions if you share (recent) dates, etc.

Unless you have better counter arguments than some other flights operating, it'll probably make sense to take their offer and move on - will your travel insurance perhaps cover the extra parking?

stevekm1982

eskbanker said:

stevekm1982 said:

1) the reason given for the cancellation was the weather conditions. However I did dispute this in my second response to them as I did research and there were other flights that did that route (or similar routes ) that evening (albeit with some delays). Also because at the gate when they cancelled it they said it was because of the delay and them not being able to get another slot (perhaps due to weather).

It does sound like the underlying root cause would have been weather-related then, even if it ultimately manifested itself in reduced slot availability and the like - there are sometimes informed insiders posting on these boards, who can offer insight into conditions and ATC restrictions if you share (recent) dates, etc.

Unless you have better counter arguments than some other flights operating, it'll probably make sense to take their offer and move on - will your travel insurance perhaps cover the extra parking?

Thanks. Sounds like taking the offer is the best I can do. I will look into travel insurance but suspect by the time I’ve paid the excess it won’t be worth it.

The date of travel was 15th July 2024 in case anyone is able to provide further information on the conditions etc 

mdann52

From what I can see, there were over 100 airspace restrictions/closures due to low cloud towards the afternoon. Highly likely you were caught up in these

stevekm1982

mdann52 said:

From what I can see, there were over 100 airspace restrictions/closures due to low cloud towards the afternoon. Highly likely you were caught up in these

Thanks so I presume that based on this they would have sufficient justification to cancel the flight and not pay compensation? 

mdann52

stevekm1982 said:

mdann52 said:

From what I can see, there were over 100 airspace restrictions/closures due to low cloud towards the afternoon. Highly likely you were caught up in these

Thanks so I presume that based on this they would have sufficient justification to cancel the flight and not pay compensation? 

Maybe, maybe not. 

Ultimately it's down to the court to decide, but I personally would say the weather conditions don't help your case. I can't see them in detail, however, so can't judge if they would have affected your route directly. German and Dutch airspace is so crammed currently that any weather has cascading delays however

SophF

Hi, can anyone please advise on a claim I have with Lufthansa. 18 of us were due to fly from LHR-MUC on 5th July at 7:20am.

LHR terminal 2 was evacuated which resulted in our flight being cancelled, and we reached Munich 12/15 hours later than planned, on two separate flights.

Lufthansa are claiming airfield restrictions and so no compensation. However, I have proof that our flight was literally the only cancelled flight from Terminal 2 that morning, and there were 4 flights just with Lufthansa (not including any other airlines) that they could have put us on before our eventual flight out of there. Furthermore, the flight that half of us were changed onto was delayed by a further 3 hours past the departure time, which was already 12 hours beyond the original departure. 

What’s the best course of action here? Lufthansa have directed me to Schlichtung (their free arbitration service they use I assume) - am I best to use this, or direct the claim elsewhere? Do I have the standing I think I do?

I understand the evacuation would be outside of Lufthansa’s control, but my argument is that it was literally the only flight to cancel, and they didn’t have to delay us for as long as they did. 

Thanks in advance for any help!