Suspended from work

peter999

CFC wrote: »

Timings of calls show a lot, actually - except that the OP logged a fault on the day with the IT department so it's more likely that the CTI on the pc or the telset was playing up.

They don't show anything !!
OP has been accused of deliberately terminating calls.

This must be independently confirmed.

The problem is these managers are idiots, they rely on technology they don't understand..

Showing call logs, processed by software is irrelevant because the managers don't understand what's behind it.

You can rip these managers to pieces.
They have call details they say were terminated.
They phone those customers, confirm those calls were terminated early & those customers are prepared to put that in writing.

peter999

kate2510

Originally posted by CFC
On what grounds do you think there could be an Employment Tribunal case for constructive dismissal?
Read IDT's comments for 27th April - 2nd May. As a former employer I see plenty there to form the basis for a claim.

The OP has had a fair hearing, and the investigations are still continuing. No outcome has even been given. The company has suspended on full pay to avoid any unfairness while they make their deliberations.

Nothing mentioned in these two sentences has anything to with constructive dismissal. If IDT cannot return to work because of the managers actions in escorting her off the premises and then discussing her situation with other employees before written details of any complaints were provided for her or her representatives this would leave them open to a claim. As we do not have all the details from both sides I do not pass any opinion as to how successful this would be.

One other point - has any customer complained in writing that this company's
call centre operator - IDT - deliberately terminated their call at ??.?? on 27.04.2007? Have 3 or more customers phoned in to complain of the same?
If not either I can not understand how the company's brand can have been devalued.
Whichever way you look at it the managers involved here would appear to have mismanaged this situation.

indeeptrouble

Thanks again for all your input. It really does give me some ideas and I appreciate all your help.

One thing I have got a problem with is actually returning to work. This really has been an embarrasing experience - especially with all my colleagues being aware as to why I have been suspended. The most important thing to me now is to actually clear my name. Secondly is getting back to work.

Just a quick question. If I was 'sacked' with what they believe is evidence I terminated calls, would this be unfair dismissal. The fact I had not received any warnings at all (the fact I'm innocent anyway should be put to one side for a moment). Are they allowed to tell others I have been suspended? Am I not meant to receive a letter advising what is actually being investigated? or is this just beforE any potential disciplinary action.

I am also wondering whether to accept (if offered) a verbal warning - even though I am not guilty, so that they can save some face in this matter. They have obviously made a terrible error. I believe this has been initiated from a line manager I have had 'disagreements' with in the past.

Regards
IDT

poe.tuesday

hello again

I would never accept a written warning if I was innoccent but you sometimes have to swallow your pride if you want to keep your job

as for telling others about you being suspended, big NO NO as far as I know, it's private and confidential

I understand that you are embarressed and are worried about returning to work, what have you got to be embarressed about, you have done nothing wrong, if you do go back, you go back with your head held high and if anyone says anything you tell them, if you were guilty you wouldn't be there would you, not that it has anything to do with anyone else, and if anyone treats you differently then you don't want to know them, they are not worthy of your friendship but you could could a grievence up about them miss treating you if they want to mess with you ,take them down

good luck girl

Elsiesgirl

I wouldn't accept a verbal or written warning if I was innocent. You don't have anything to be embarrassed about so hold your head up high. If they dismiss you then contact ACAS straight away. I'm assuming you've done as advised and written everything down as it happened. Take care and don't worry.

firesidemaid

hi again

i too would also say do not accept a verbal warning. you have not done anything wrong and it will stay on your file and they might decide to do this again and then use the previous warning against you.

also, has this ever happened to anyone else (genuinely) before and if so what happened?

also, what happened to the other person who you said the same happened to (as in, also seemed to be trying to get rid of).

i think i must be really cynical, but do not trust them in this matter.

CFC

indeeptrouble wrote: »

Thanks again for all your input. It really does give me some ideas and I appreciate all your help.

One thing I have got a problem with is actually returning to work. This really has been an embarrasing experience - especially with all my colleagues being aware as to why I have been suspended. The most important thing to me now is to actually clear my name. Secondly is getting back to work.

Just a quick question. If I was 'sacked' with what they believe is evidence I terminated calls, would this be unfair dismissal. The fact I had not received any warnings at all (the fact I'm innocent anyway should be put to one side for a moment). Are they allowed to tell others I have been suspended? Am I not meant to receive a letter advising what is actually being investigated? or is this just beforE any potential disciplinary action.

I am also wondering whether to accept (if offered) a verbal warning - even though I am not guilty, so that they can save some face in this matter. They have obviously made a terrible error. I believe this has been initiated from a line manager I have had 'disagreements' with in the past.

Regards
IDT

Hi again babe,

No, it would not be unfair dismissal at this point. If you are given an outcome of termination, your next step is to appeal internally. If your appeal was unsuccessful, then you may be able to take this to an Employment Tribunal and the panel would decide whether it was an unfair or fair dismissal. To do that they would review all the facts in the case and make their decision. Some aspects which they would consider can be found here

Next point - they do not need to communicate with you at this point. The documentation that they sent you should have included what they relied on in the hearing. If they are currently making further investigations, the results should be made available to you before the hearing recommences or during a reconvened meeting (dependent on what they have investigated).

Are they allowed to tell others? Well, it's not good practice, and you could raise a grievance about it and you would receive an apology, but it will have no impact at all on the hearing or on the outcome.

Kate2510, thinks differently to me, all I can say is that it would not be grounds for constructive dismissal. I do employ over 100 people and have had experience of some big mouthed junior manager doing the same thing...it is NOT good practice, but it is not grounds for constructive dismissal because if the person receives no outcome (ie found innocent) then that should also be made plain by the same big mouthed person if the IDT wants that, and if there is an outcome, it's unfortunate and embarassing for the person concerned but that person shouldn't have done the action. They have by the consequence of their own actions,brought around the situation in which they cannot work. The same applies to being escorted from the premises. That should always happen when an employee is suspended, and a company would be very irresponsible if they did not have a policy which dictated that. Remember, may cases of Gross Misconduct (which are the cases that can end in termination) are for theft or threats. Of course, being escorted off is public and can't be hidden - and the same argument applies that either the person is found innocent or guilty - see previous logic - there is no constructive dismissal here. In the same way, I appreciate that you are finding the wait stressful, but that is also not constructive dismissal as the company cannot rush the investigation or they could be accused of conducting a sloppy investigation. It is never in a company's interests to delay it if it can be avoided, because it is costing them money to keep someone at home on full pay.

In the same way, there do NOT need to be complaints for the company to feel that their brand is being devalued. What do complaints have to do with it? (Customers do not always formally complain in this situation anyway, and sometimes are not aware that a cut-off was deliberate. This does not mean that a manager will not consider that there is a devaluing of the brand by this behaviour)

Peter999 is a million miles from the mark - the company do not have to PROVE anything beyond all reasonable doubt, this is not a court of law. The company need to show that they are acting reasonably, fairly and consistently and have followed the statutory procedures.

As for whether you should accept a verbal or written warning IDT - let's be realistic. If that's what they give you, there is no 'acceptance' from you. They don't need your agreement. However, what you should do is to immediately appeal against the decision if it goes against you and you are given either a warning or termination. You have nothing to lose by doing this. Details of how to appeal should be given to you in the meeting if a warning or termination is given and also in the letter that you receive to confirm the outcome. Don't delay, it is time-critical. You don't have to give all the reasons for appeal, you just have to confirm that you want to appeal. You'll then have time to marshall all the arguments. And yes, outcomes can and do get turned over at appeal, especially if the waters are muddy - it's not just theoretical.

You mentioned in another post that another employee has also been suspended for the same reason on the same day. If you know this person, you might find it valuable to see what is happening in their case as well. You also mentioned that both of you are on higher rates of pay and better benefits. If you can keep in touch with that other person, it could be useful if it should ever go to an employment tribunal.

Keep your chin up

lisawal1971

Hi

I have been a call centre manager for many years. The reports that you get that show ' short calls' are only useful for trending and spotting patterns. One day with a high numbers of short calls ( hang ups) is not conclusive. There may be telephone/ PC problems or a problem with your head set, maybe you went on a break, left your headset on the phone and yourself logged in and some callers came through, heard nothing and hung up, this is, in my experience the most common cause of one day of high short calls. This is easily cross referenced against an employee schedule/ log in/ log out reports which all call centres will have. Even if the short calls were hang ups, this would warrant coaching and maybe maybe a verbal warning if there was evidence other than the report.

Good luck, there are fair and decent call centres out there- I hope all goes well for you.

Lisa

Elsiesgirl

Still thinking about you and hoping all will go well. Getting the decorating done is one good result anyway. Take care

kate2510

Hello again, Indeeptrouble,
I promise that this will be my last word other than to wish you well and hope that the outcome of this experience will be to your satisfaction - whatever it is.
As my opinion, and I acknowledge it is only my opinion, has differed from that of CFC I thought that a Directgov.uk definition might clarify matters for you.

'Constructive dismissal happens when an employee is forced to quit their job against their will because of their employer's conduct.
What is constructive dismissal?
If you're forced to quit your job because of the way you're treated, it's called constructive dismissal. Although there's no actual dismissal by the employer, the end result is the same as if you'd been sacked. It's often very hard to prove that your employer's behaviour was so bad as to make you leave, so you should get legal advice before leaving your job.
The reason for leaving your job must be serious - there must be a fundamental breach of your contract.
Examples include:
• a serious breach of your contract (eg not paying you or suddenly demoting you for no reason)
• forcing you to accept unreasonable changes to your conditions of employment without your agreement (eg suddenly telling you to work in another town, or making you work night shifts when your contract is only for day work)
• bullying, harassment or violence against you by work colleagues
• making you work in dangerous conditions
The employer's breach of contract may be one serious incident or the last in a series of less important incidents that are serious when taken together.
• More about changing employment conditions
Unfair and wrongful dismissal
A constructive dismissal may be both an 'unfair' and a 'wrongful' dismissal.
An unfair dismissal is where the employer sacks you (or forces you to leave) without good reason or fails to follow proper procedures.
Wrongful dismissal is when your employer breaches your contract in dismissing you (or forcing you to leave).
You can make both an unfair constructive dismissal claim and a wrongful constructive dismissal claim as long as you qualify to do so. In most cases you need at least a year's service before you can make an unfair dismissal claim.
A wrongful dismissal claim is made in the same way as a breach of contract claim. A claim of unfair constructive dismissal is handled in the same way as any other unfair dismissal claim except that there is more likely to be a dispute about whether there was a dismissal (or behaviour that forced you to leave) or not.'

You can see why so many people asked if you had or had seen a copy of the company's disciplinary procedures. It is important that they have followed all the necessary procedures.
If I were a senior manager in your company I would be checking to see if you had a contract of employment and/or job description/terms and conditions of employment.
I would want to know if you had been given a copy of an employee handbook or been given paid time to read one and your signature obtained and dated and stored in your employee record to say that this had been accomplished. Was your signature obtained to recognise induction and periodic training?

Then I would want to know exactly how the current incident had been conducted.

The onus is on the employer to observe all the correct procedures and they have a duty of care to ensure that employees are not harassed or bullied or subject to unfair treatment.

The union rep is the person most likely to be 'on the ball' with respect to all this so find out if they are willing to help you.

I do not suggest that you would win or that you should resign from this job - but if you take another job because you really cannot face returning this would not exclude you from considering making a claim.
You will not get compensation for hurt feelings.