POPLA Appeal - Advice appreciated

The_Slithy_Tove

MrDance wrote: »

I have been reading the forum whilst I have been going back and forth with ParkingEye over the last few months and they have finally send me details of the POPLA appeal process with the verification code and I would apprecaite some advise.

When you say "finally", how long after your first appeal did they reject it and supply the code? If it was more than 35 days, you can relply to PE telling them that the BPA Code of Practice says:

You must acknowledge or reply to the challenge within 14 days of receiving it. If at frst you only acknowledge the challenge, you must accept or reject the challenge in writing within 35 days of receiving it. We may require you to show that you are keeping to these targets.

...

If you reject a challenge you must:
• tell the driver how to make an appeal to POPLA. This includes providing a template ‘notice of appeal’ form, or a link to the appropriate website for lodging an appeal.

...

If you receive a challenge or appeal about the issue of a parking ticket, you must stop work on processing the ticket immediately. You must not increase the charge until you have replied to the challenge. You must acknowledge or reply to the challenge within 14 days of receiving it. If at frst you only acknowledge the challenge or appeal, you must accept or reject the challenge or appeal in writing within 35 days of receiving it. We may require you to show that you are keeping to these targets.

So, if they didn't reject it AND tell you how to appeal within 35 days of your initial appeal, according to the CoP, the appeal is deemed to be accepted, and therefore they should go away forthwith.

Guys_Dad

spacey2012 wrote: »

The parking companies will benefit from POPLA Kangaroo court charges.
They will have a legitimate expense to ofset against tax and thus use as arguments that charges imposed are costs not penalties.
Dance with the Devil at by all means, but it will come at a price.

I think I am losing the plot here.

I understood that some of you were advocating making the PPC go through POPLA as it would cost them time and money. Even if they can offset the actual POPLA cost against tax, it would still cost them money plus, of course, the time it would take to respond to the appeal.

Not sure why BASFORDLAD, who did take an appeal to POPLA expecting to lose now advocates simply ignoring the PPC. Maybe the adjudiction convinced him it was a waste of time, but I had a sneaking respect for him actually deciding to inconvenience the PPC by enforcing the POPLA route.

Now OP didn't actually ask for advice about whether or not to go down the POPLA route. The original post asked questions about the POPLA route, not whether or not to take it. Of course, many of you are completely right in saying "Don't bother" given the time that may be spent on the fruitless POPLA route. But I tend to go with Dublindel who supports more POPLA appeals to guage the results.

And to answer Mr Dance who wrote " I thought most of these were the same, the PCN is for overstaying the "free" 2 hour parking on a retail park. ", actually, no. If you look at BASFORDLAD's case on this page, you will see that his - the only POPLA adjudication we have so far - was for parking in a disabled space without a blue badge.

Aaron_Aadvark

spacey2012 wrote: »

The parking companies will benefit from POPLA Kangaroo court charges.
They will have a legitimate expense to ofset against tax and thus use as arguments that charges imposed are costs not penalties.
Dance with the Devil at by all means, but it will come at a price.

POPLA wrote:

There is no charge for submitting an appeal to POPLA.

If a PPC adds a POPLA fee to its cost then it is proving that POPLA is being disingenuous on its website. Surely not!

If a PPC includes a general charge for POPLA appeals in its 'speculative invoice' then it cannot claim that this amounts to a genuine pre-estimate of costs incurred in a particular parking event.

edward123

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Now OP didn't actually ask for advice about whether or not to go down the POPLA route. The original post asked questions about the POPLA route, not whether or not to take it. Of course, many of you are completely right in saying "Don't bother" given the time that may be spent on the fruitless POPLA route. But I tend to go with Dublindel who supports more POPLA appeals to guage the results.

I'm tending to agree with the above from Guys Dad. But rather than use POPLA to guage the why and the what they say and do when they reject appeal, I would say to use POPLA simply to cost the PPC money with a simple POPLA appeal, for example, "I deem it a penalty which is illegal in these circumstances." Or something along those lines. This would be rejected by POPLA of course but your grounds of appeal with POPLA will not prejudice your defence if the PPC were stupid enough to try court. Any way, feel free to disagree. But thats my take on it so far. I could change my mind though :j

BASFORDLAD

30 is neither here or there for most ppcs

MrDance

The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »

When you say "finally", how long after your first appeal did they reject it and supply the code? If it was more than 35 days, you can relply to PE telling them that the BPA Code of Practice says:

You must acknowledge or reply to the challenge within 14 days of receiving it. If at frst you only acknowledge the challenge, you must accept or reject the challenge in writing within 35 days of receiving it. We may require you to show that you are keeping to these targets.

So, if they didn't reject it AND tell you how to appeal within 35 days of your initial appeal, according to the CoP, the appeal is deemed to be accepted, and therefore they should go away forthwith.

Thanks for this information, I was not aware of that. The timeline of the event so far is as follows:-

25th October 2012, Mrs Dance parked on a retail park for 2 Hours 34 mins whilst she had her hair done at a shop that backed on to the retail pack (no sign at the area of the car park she used), exceeding the allowable limit of 2hrs, she did also used one of the shops on the retail park.

31st October 2012, we received a notice from PE with the usual guff informing us that we needed to let them know who the driver was, pay £60 within 14 days etc

5th November, 2012, I sent a without predjuice letter appealing the charge, quoting the relevant case law pointing out the flaws with their claim.

12th December 2012, we received a letter from PE informing us the requirements schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedom's act required for keeper liability had been satisfied and as a result we had to pay £100 as the registered keeper of the vehicle and the right to appeal to POPLA was no longer avaliable.

16th December 2012, I emailed them and pointed out I had appealed the charge of 5th November 2012 and heard nothing and until they rejected this appeal then POPLA still was an option

19th December 2012, we received a letter addressing part of our appeal and asking for information on the amount spent at the shops.

22nd December 2012, we emailed the receipt for £11.45

30th December 2012, we received a letter informing us that the purchase amount did not meet the discretionary criteria set by the landowner in this case and asked us to supply any further evidence that we did not break the terms and conditions stipulated on the signage.

4th January 2013, we emailed saying that we did not feel the landowners tennants would agree with this assessment

9th January we received a letter informing us that our appeal had failed and that we could either as aguesture of goodwill pay the orginal £60 or alternatively appeal to POPLA

So I guess the question is what should I do :-

A) write to them and inform them as they did not deal with my appeal in 35 days I consider the appeal sucessful and the matter closed

Appeal to POPLA

C) Do nothing and see what happens

BASFORDLAD

C is your easiest and best bet

atilla

I'd say A

You played their game long enough already.

Coupon-mad

I say B!

Under those circumstances, I would appeal to POPLA. I really feel we should not be ducking out of POPLA appeals just because the first couple of decisions have been 'computer says no'. This case has some different parts to it!

Clearly PE have tried to circumvent the POPLA appeal (denied it at first) and missed the timeline to give you the Code. So include that in your appeal to POPLA.

And they have also made up an additional part of the alleged contract which is not even on the signage (how much would have been enough on the receipt, who could possibly know unless the signs say 'free for customers spending £50' or whatever?!). To form a contract one party cannot arbitrarily add other clauses after the event which were not known at the time.

I would appeal to POPLA, why not. It will cost PE money and expose the fact they tried to pretend that it was too late for POPLA. Make that point very clearly in your appeal.

BASFORDLAD

Coupon mad may well have a point.

Coupon can you check your private messages pls