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    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th Nov 13, 5:35 PM
    • 37,344Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    Newbies! Need help with a private parking ticket? Read this before posting!!
    • #1
    • 10th Nov 13, 5:35 PM
    Newbies! Need help with a private parking ticket? Read this before posting!! 10th Nov 13 at 5:35 PM
    WELCOME!

    START YOUR OWN NEW THREAD IF YOU FEEL YOU STILL NEED TO ASK FOR ADVICE AFTER READING THE RELEVANT POSTS HERE BUT DON'T TRY TO SKIM-READ THIS ON A PHONE, PLEASE!

    DO NOT POST A QUESTION IN THIS THREAD AND DON'T START A NEW THREAD JUST BECAUSE YOU WANT A SIMPLE VERSION![/B]


    THIS THREAD TELLS YOU HOW TO COMPLAIN & APPEAL.

    NB: PLEASE NOTE I AM NOT CONNECTED TO ANY APPEALS COMPANY.


    This isn't a 'real' parking ticket but in England & Wales, do NOT ignore most of them! They can be enforceable in small claims but they can be appealed - with success depending on circumstances - and certainly complained about to retailers who can cancel some of them immediately.

    If you stay in Scotland or NI please do complain to the retailer but do NOT appeal, DO NOT GIVE AWAY WHO WAS DRIVING (see below section about Scotland/NI specifically).



    COMPLAIN FIRST, ESPECIALLY OVER A RETAIL OR HOSPITAL CAR PARK:

    Always complain to the Retailer very quickly and assertively, WITH A RECEIPT IF POSSIBLE:

    Successful complaints about private parking tickets - how to get them cancelled!<<< CLICK


    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4766249 Look how easy it can be to get these cancelled by a retailer/hotel/landowner!



    If you are not the registered keeper - e.g. a hire/company/lease car - see asterisk below as you must appeal EARLY *.



    Appealing a private PCN (England & Wales ONLY)

    Windscreen ticket? = STOP - wait and research before appealing!!

    If it was a windscreen 'PCN' (not postal) then consider waiting 3 weeks and in that time, you MUST check the firm is and AOS member with the BPA or IPC (GOOGLE IT). DO NOT APPEAL AT ALL, IF THEY ARE NOT! Victims who rush to appeal could be handing a scam artist their details on a plate and - almost as bad - pointlessly throwing away appeal grounds open to the keeper. Forget the 14 day 'discount' if you wish to appeal meaningfully; that bribe is not for you.

    For example, don't appeal to tickets carrying these exact names: 'ANPR Ltd' or 'Premier Parking Logistics', or any others who are not members of any Trade Body and cannot get your name and address unless you are daft enough to tell them! The latest advice is, in the case of AOS MEMBERS ONLY, AS LONG AS THEY ARE NOT BANNED FROM GETTING DVLA DATA appeal online or by email at around day 24 after a windscreen ticket but as the KEEPER, not driver, using the template below.

    NOTE: the appeal deadline is NOT 14 days, please re-read your PCN if you think it is! 14 days is about payment, not appeal, and you are not about to pay. The PCN does not 'go up' after day 14. It is always 'all or nothing' when you appeal.


    Why wait 3 weeks before appealing?

    The idea is not to appeal too soon 'as if you are the driver' (NO!) and secondly, to engage them in the appeals process at a time when they should also be posting a Notice to Keeper.

    Many PPCs forget the NTK when replying to an appeal and if you appeal as 'keeper' then the very fact a PPC then forgets to send you a NTK by day 56, gives you a potentially winning point at POPLA stage.

    Don't forget this: if you appeal on day 25 or 26 after a windscreen PCN, make sure you take note of whether any postal NTK is ever received. You must include 'no keeper liability' at POPLA stage, explaining that a missed or flawed NTK is fatal to the operator's case against a keeoer appellant.



    Postal PCN ? (i.e. with no mention of any windscreen ticket at all, whether seen or not):

    A postal PCN or NTK might be headed up 'Notice to Keeper' or 'Reminder' or 'Charge Notice' or it may even be a random letter from a debt collector - it is still your Notice to Keeper, in effect, if it is the first letter to arrive.

    Compare your postal PCN to paragraph 8 or 9 of POFA 2012 (linked below), depending if there was a windscreen ticket issued first or not. It's an excerpt from a law but it really isn't difficult, please don't just ask the regulars here to check your NTK for you without making an attempt to check it yourself, unless you really need help to read the simple bullet points in paragraph 8 (NTK which follows a windscreen ticket) or paragraph 9 (NTK which serves as the first PCN).

    Look for omissions in wording or late arrival of the NTK and include those points in your appeal because as the registered keeper you can argue 'no keeper liability' if the PPC have not followed the requirements for a NTK. However that does not make the ticket 'illegal' it just demotes it to one which is issued under 'old rules and is only potentially aimed at an - unidentified of course! - driver.

    An appeal can be submitted by the keeper after a postal NTK even if the first opportunity has expired, after a windcsreen PCN.




    THE FIRST APPEAL TO THE PPC


    Don't forget to include a copy of any receipts or bank transactions or proof of patronage if 'the driver' (third person!!) was shopping when you got the fake PCN. And a copy of the Blue Badge if a disabled person was 'an occupant of the car' because in some cases that gets early cancellation. Some PPCs, like ParkingEye, might cancel early with such proof of patronage and it's worth trying, as long as you are careful not to say who parked/drove.


    DO NOT SAY 'HERE IS MY RECEIPT FROM MY SHOPPING'.

    You can add to the template below, 'in order to resolve the dispute I attach copies of': the driver's receipts/bank transactions (or Hospital Appointment/Hotel booking, etc.) that day as they were a genuine customer/patient or whatever. Not ME, myself or I !



    What's the point of appealing and what happens next?


    You can use the first template appeal for BPA members and submit it before the end of day 14 if you wish to have the option of the discount possibly re-offered, if they reject and give you a POPLA code.



    - if this is a BPA member parking firm, the point is to get a POPLA code if you do not get it cancelled. We don't mind checking over a draft POPLA appeal you put together.

    - this is why not to name the driver (thanks to The Slithy Tove for this explanation):

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=69906180#post69906180


    - if this is an IPC member parking firm, see post #3, there is no POPLA for you, so consumers do not get a fair appeal. Instead, just send this letter or a version of it, writing ONLY as the registered keeper, giving the registered keeper's name and address (thanks to salmosalaris for the basis of this letter):


    Dear {name of IPC member, only IPC members for this version!!!}

    Re PCN number:

    I am not ignoring your charge for a purported parking infraction. As this is purely a charge, issued under an alleged contract and the driver has not been identified, I require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:

    1. Who is the party that contracted with your company? I require their contact details.
    2. What is the full legal identity of the landowner?
    3. As you are not the landowner please provide a contemporaneous and unredacted copy of your contract with the landholder that demonstrate that you have their authority.
    4. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.
    5. If the charge is based on damages for breach of contract please provide your justification of this sum.
    6. Is your charge based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking? Answer yes or no.
    7. If the charge is based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking please provide a valid VAT invoice for this 'service'.
    8. Please provide a copy of the signs that you can evidence were on site and which you contend formed a contract with the driver on that occasion, as well as all photographs taken of this vehicle.

    If you believe you have a cause of action, send a Letter before Claim within the next 21 days and I will take advice and will respond.

    However, in my opinion, there is a better alternative than legal proceedings, namely that we utilise the services of a completely independent ADR service suited to parking charges. This does not include the IAS appeal service - which lacks any transparency and possibly any independence from the IPC - unlike the alternative offered by the British Parking Association, POPLA, which is transparent and has been shown to be independent.

    Do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs or surcharges. I will not respond to such contact and to involve another firm would be a failure to mitigate your costs which are not my liability because the POFA 2012 can only potentially hold a registered keeper liable if certain provisions have been met and even then, the 'amount of the parking charge' is the only amount pursuable.

    Yours faithfully,






    ************************************************** ************************************************** *



    If no time to 'dig out flaws' in paperwork, just use our appeal example unless your PCN was from these where you will certainly need to start a new thread:
    [/FONT]
    'Devere' (Bournemouth usually, e.g. at Castlepoint)
    'District Enforcement'
    (Staffordshire University etc.)
    'Secure -a-Space'
    'Napier'
    'Combined Parking Solutions'



    Here is a template appeal that doesn't give away the driver & gets a rejection letter with a POPLA code. Yes it needs your postal address, and yes it needs your name as keeper of course.

    If you have to appeal as driver (e.g. if yours is a company or hire car, see separate section below) then of course remove the wording about 'not naming the driver' and anything about the POFA 2012 which only protects keepers. Do not appeal if the parking event was in Scotland/NI, see separate section below.


    Template appeal for BPA members - copy this wording into the online appeal box or into an email:




    Date


    Dear Sirs

    Re: PCN No. ....................

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

    I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.

    Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,





    {obviously add the registered keeper's name, obviously add your postal address even if emailing (!) as long as you are sure the PPC is an AOS member}

    ADD A SQUIGGLE IF POSTING IT!

    NO NEED TO USE A REAL SIGNATURE - BUT DON'T POST UNLESS YOU HAVE TO - USE THE ONLINE APPEAL PAGE FOR FIRMS LIKE UKPC AND EURO CAR PARKS & PARKINGEYE, BECAUSE THE APPEAL CANNOT THEN GET LOST AND YOU CAN KEEP A SCREEN PRINT.
    USE THE EMAIL APPEAL OPTION IF FIRMS OFFER IT - E.G. HORIZON, SMART, OR 'MET' AT MCDONALDS OFFER EMAIL APPEALS.



    If you want to have a rant, if you are angry about the so-called 'PCN' and intend to complain to the retailer/landowner/Hospital/hotel or whatever is on site, DO COMPLAIN in writing! Many, many of these PCNs are cancelled when retailers & landowners receive an assertive complaint.


    Do not phone a PPC!

    You could phone the retailer/landowner/Hospital by searching for their 'contact us' or 'customer complaints' or CEO's email address.

    Write a complaint in your own complaint-writing style. See separate post #6 below and see the link above to the thread about 'Successful Complaints'.



    ************************************************** ************************************************** *



    - Want to dig deeper? Want to check the compliance of your ticket or Notice to Keeper, if the PPC is citing 'keeper liability' under the POFA 2012?
    Here's a link to Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 which applies in England/Wales only (bear in mind not all tickets or NTKs are written using the wording from this Schedule, so check yours first, look for the words shown in paragraph 8 if it's a windscreen ticket followed by a NTK, or the words in paragraph 9 if it's a postal PCN):

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

    Any omissions or wrongly stated wording can be argued to mean there is 'no keeper liability' established. And you can also argue 'no keeper liability' if the NTK arrives late.

    If they are a firm which alleges 'keeper liability' under the POFA 2012 (which they don't have to) the a postal PCN has to arrive by day 15 if there was no windscreen ticket, and between day 29 and day 57 if there was a windscreen ticket. Some firms (e.g. Civil Enforcement, CP Plus, Smart Parking and some small PPCs) don't even bother with POFA 2012 wording so the keeper is not liable if you point that out to POPLA. So you can see why the keeper is the only person identified in your appeal !



    ************************************************** ************************************************** *



    SECOND STAGE APPEAL = POPLA


    SEE SEPARATE POST #3 BELOW (DO NOT BOTHER WITH THE IAS)




    Do I need to start a new thread?


    Please no new threads about the Peel Centre or Debt Recovery Plus or ZZPS or Wright Hassall letters!

    Yawn yawn yawn...blah blah Peel Centre...blah blah Debt Recovery Plus...blah blah ZZPS or Wright Hassall - yes we've seen the letters before and so can you!

    <<allow me a personal eeeek!! Not enough newbies SEARCH - you only need to put in 'Peel' or 'Recovery' or 'ZZPS Hassall' into the 'search this forum' heading!>>


    We will help if you've read other threads - but we don't need the same old threads every day...please! You'll see why when you 'search this forum' for your keywords which should include the name of the company.


    DEBT COLLECTOR STAGE - SEE POST #4 BELOW

    Please no new threads about the letters - JUST SEARCH THIS FORUM! So, for example if you have a Debt Recovery Plus letter talking about 'my findings' then search this forum for 'Recovery findings' as your keywords. DO NOT START A NEW THREAD ABOUT DEBT RECOVERY LETTERS.

    CAN'T SAY IT ENOUGH, THIS IS NOT A FORUM FOR TALKING AD INFINITUM ABOUT DEBT COLLECTOR LETTER CHAINS SO PLEASE SPARE US.




    SMALL CLAIM?
    START A NEW THREAD PLEASE. VERY UNLIKELY IN SCOTLAND, MORE COMMONLY WE SEE ENGLAND/WALES CLAIMS WHERE PEOPLE HAVE MULTIPLE PCNS OR JUST BECAUSE IT'S A LITIGIOUS OPERATOR BULLY LIKE PARKINGEYE. OTHER COMPANY'S CLAIMS CAN BE MORE EASY TO DEFEND THAN PE THESE DAYS BUT WE'LL TELL IT LIKE IT IS.

    It's more difficult to show you a 'template suggestion' defence since ParkingEye v Beavis.

    Read the Supreme Court's shocking decision which has been described as giving rogue parking operators a 'licence to print money'. This decision occurred in National Consumers' week too - some people might call it an insult to consumers with only a change in legislation now held as a possibility in 2016 to undo the damage and control these unfair penalties, which drain the public pocket and adversely affect retailers who allow the scummiest firms on site.

    Here's a post-Beavis argument used against UKCPS who discontinued:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=69866793&posted=1#post69866793


    And here's a summary from bargepole of what happens when, what you MUST do in time, re the paperwork & deadlines:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=61084955

    And here's an example thread re a UKPC claim, where IamEmanresu explains a 'Part 18 Letter' at the start of the process, where you ask for more evidence:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5373288

    And here's a recent 2016 'defence' and 'witness statement', to give you an idea of how to write these (this case was won):

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=100916&st=120

    But here's a post-Beavis ParkingEye case lost despite a defence attempted:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5362419

    If you have small claim papers, DO NOT IGNORE IT OR YOU LOSE BY DEFAULT. You could try negotiating and complaining to the retailers/landowner (even late in the day) but you still MUST acknowledge and defend the claim in time and after some decent research.

    Urgently start your own thread and show us your own tailored draft defence and we'll assist on a case by case basis as far as we can. You do not pay legal costs in small claims, nor do you get a CCJ even if you lose; as long as you pay within 28 days of judgment it's all sorted and nothing stays on the register (i.e. your credit record). But it is harder now in 2016 and you may lose and have to pay £150 - £200 typically (that's all).



    ************************************************** ************************************************** *



    If in Scotland/NI:

    Apart from (of course!!)
    complaining to the landowner/retailer you should IGNORE your fake PCN unless you are not the registered keeper and that is a company (hire car or leased/company vehicle).*


    You are safe to ignore because there is no worthwhile appeals process - do not believe what the fake PCN says! This Watchdog video still applies in Scotland and NI because a PPC has to know who was driving (unlike in England/Wales now):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAIcdi9niHA

    WHEN IGNORING IN SCOTLAND/NI, KEEP ALL LETTERS. DO NOT THROW THEM AWAY EVEN IF YOU HAVE MADE A PAPER AEROPLANE FROM THEM!

    ************************************************** **************



    * COMPANY, LEASE OR HIRE CARS ANYWHERE IN THE UK

    In the case of a company car or hire car, if you get a windscreen ticket you MUST appeal before day 28 (possibly before day 21 when it's an IPC firm whcih only 'offers' 21 days to appeal). This is in order to hook the PPC in your direction, before they get a chance to get the keeper's details from the DVLA. If it's a windscreen PCN, use the usual appeal shown above, either the BPA version or IPC version (as appropriate).

    You should also warn the owner/keeper (Fleet Manager) not to pay if they do get a letter about it because they have no business to get involved in a fake PCN you have already appealed as driver, and you won't reimburse them if they are daft enough to pay it.

    If the hire/lease co gets a postal PCN and names you as the driver/hirer, that is a good thing as it removes them from the loop entirely and then you can follow the above advice as appropriate to your case - but check and see if they have charged an admin fee. Challenge that admin fee with the Fleet Manager, Hire firm or your HR Manager, if your car use t&cs do not support this deduction for a mere invoice (as opposed to a fine/penalty).

    Europcar are one firm which will refund the admin fee if you win your appeal.

    Here are two examples of a successful first appeal (but one that gets a POPLA code is good too - the appeal can then be winnable - so don't expect early cancellation, this is rare). These examples relate to a situation where the PPC has (very commonly indeed) failed to send the required 'documents' to the hirer with the postal Notice, by day 21 after the date they were informed of the hirer's details:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=69859059#post69859059

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=69767583#post69767583


    Thanks to Edna Basher for the template appeal to use where it's a Hire/company/lease car and a postal Notice has been sent after the hirer/lessee/company car user has been named. Remember, that does not mean they have named the 'driver'. You are the keeper.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 03-05-2016 at 10:43 PM.
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jan 14, 7:42 PM
    • 37,344 Posts
    • 48,780 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 14, 7:42 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 14, 7:42 PM
    Some forum acronyms explained (REMEMBER THAT SOME OF THESE WILL NOT MEAN ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF THE FORUM)

    AOS = Approved Operator Scheme of an Accredited Trade Association such as the BPA (or the new one, the IPC). Only AOS members can get DVLA data.

    BPA = British Parking Association, merely a Trade Body for its member PPCs (not a regulator & not on your side, however you can use them to complain).

    IAS = a 2nd stage 'SO CALLED independent' appeal service, applicable in England/Wales for IPC AOS members only. Pointless.

    IPC = Independent Parking Committee - merely a Trade Body for its member PPCs (not a regulator & not on your side, however you can use them to complain). Forget their so-called independent appeal stage of IAS in most cases, shockingly rude and arrogant bullyboy (allegedly biased) decisions have been reported.

    LBCCC/LBC/LBA = Letter Before County Court Claim/Letter Before Claim/Letter Before Action. DO NOT IGNORE IT. How to respond.

    MCOL = Money Claim Online.

    NTK = Notice to Keeper which should be the first letter sent to the registered keeper. See below for how to appeal if in England/Wales.

    PPC = our forum shorthand only, for 'private parking company'.

    POFA 2012 = Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (specifically Schedule 4 as linked below). England/Wales ONLY.

    POPLA = Parking on Private Land Appeals - a 2nd stage 'independent' appeal service, applicable in England/Wales and for BPA AOS members only. Sometimes found to be awful in 2016 so you do have to cover all bases first time, in your POPLA appeal.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 03-05-2016 at 10:32 PM.
    PCN in a private car park in England/Wales? DON'T PAY IT BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    USE THE 'FORUM JUMP' ON RIGHT, GO TO THE PARKING TICKETS FORUM. READ THE 'NEWBIES' THREAD.
    Do NOT read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jan 14, 7:42 PM
    • 37,344 Posts
    • 48,780 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 14, 7:42 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 14, 7:42 PM
    SECOND STAGE APPEAL - POPLA OR IAS



    POPLA IS OFFERED BY BPA AOS FIRMS

    DO NOT APPEAL SAYING WHO WAS DRIVING, NEITHER AT FIRST APPEAL STAGE NOR AT POPLA.

    POPLA Appeals are submitted here (New POPLA system Sept 2015; it's horrible)!

    http://www.popla.co.uk/

    but don't feel you have to answer their questions, you should write a detailed appeal and attach it as a PDF along with photos (use the parking firm's own photo of the sign if the words are illegible and the £100 (or whatever) charge is not in LARGE letters. Certainly don't blow it by trying to answer about 'what happened' just because POPLA questions prompt you to answer! You can appeal as keeper and raise the point (among others) that the NTK is not compliant with the POFA 2012 statutory wording.

    To find a relevant POPLA appeal written recently, always search the forum well, chosing good keywords. So if yours was a UKPC PCN about a permit, search 'UKPC POPLA Permit'; if yours is a MET PCN at a train station, search 'MET POPLA station' and so on if yours is an ACPA PCN at an Airport, search the forum for the words 'APCOA POPLA Airport'. ParkingEye (make sure you search it as ONE word as shown, can be best handled by searching for the relevant place as a keyowrd, so 'ParkingEye POPLA Aire Street' or ParkingEye Leisure World POPLA' or ' ParkingEye POPLA Hospital' would be good choices of keywords to find very recent examples.

    I have removed links to example POPLA appeals because they change and evolve. Searching will find the most recent similar example; do not use one older than February 2016. Do not look at old ones about 'no GPEOL' or loss because that's not going to win. Cobble together a draft POPLA appeal to suit your case, based on the examples your search finds, and show us your POPLA draft in your original thread; don't start a new one unless you have started no thread yet.

    POPLA (now run by the Ombudsman Service) tells us that the operator is expected to show their evidence to the appellant, the same as was the case before with 'old POPLA'. But sometimes the operator doesn't send it to you quickly after POPLA get their copy. If so, email POPLA back and copy in aos@britishparking.co.uk putting the POPLA code and and name of parking firm and PCN number into the subject line. Complain and ask for an extension of time to comment on the evidence once it arrives.

    You should urgently (the same week) look through the evidence and find things to rebut - such as the signage being pants or noting to show how close the car was to a sign, or the witness statement/contract being heavily redacted, out of date, not signed by the landowner or whatever - just email new POPLA. Put the POPLA verification code correctly in the email subject line and attach a rebuttal of the operator's case, blow by blow, without naming the driver. Examples here:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=69778312#post69778312

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=69835948#post69835948



    You can use the 'Portal' to add comments but that currently only stays open for six days and restricts your word count badly, and doesn't allow photos, so emailing a PDF rebuttal to POPLA is best, even if the Portal comments box is closed. For example, you may want to copy the operator's own signage photos and point out how they do not prominently show the amount of the parking charge itself in large letters, which is in breach of 2(3) of schedule 4 of the POFA and contrary to the BPA code of practice AND means the sign is not clear or prominent enough to form any contract with a driver before parking.

    If you can't read the £ of the charge (some signs do not even have the sum on them) you can't agree to pay it so don't just accept the version of the sign shown in close up, look at their evidence of your car near a sign - can you read the £sum of the parking charge?


    What will likely happen in the end, re my POPLA appeal?

    Read the end of the 'POPLA Decisions' sticky thread now, for some recent winners. Recently we've seen POPLA wins on signage being inadequate/dark/too small to be read from a car before parking and on 'no keeper liability' and on 'no landowner authority shown'. But in 2016 we've started to see some absolutely shocking appeals lost. POPLA is not as easy to win as it was, hence why it's best tio read recent ones and adapt them & get advice on the forum.

    POPLA and the importance of rebutting the evidence in a final email to POPLA, is discussed here in the second half of this post:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=68548048&highlight=#post68548048

    What will happen if I lose at POPLA?

    - you will most likely (unless it's a very litigious PPC like ParkingEye) just get a series of hysterical 'pay up or else' debt collector letters, or maybe letters from the PPC themselves - see separate post about ignoring them, below.

    or

    - you might have to defend this if the PPC tries a small claim band they might be buoyed by an POPLA 'win' under their belt to brandish in their evidence. That's why complaints to retailers or landowner can be timely evenafter a POPLA loss.

    You really *should* robustly complain to POPLA, if the decision is ridiculous. For example, we've had registered keepers appeal where there was never a NTK served (so legally the keeper cannot possibly - in any circumstances as long as the driver has not been identified - be liable) yet POPLA in 2016 has said those appellants must pay. What you do is complain first to complaints@popla.co.uk being careful to point out how the Assessor has erred in law and when they tell you to get lost, complain to ISPA which oversees POPLA.

    To find examples of this, search the forum for 'complaints@popla.co.uk' or 'ISPA complain about popla' which should show some recent rants by appellants who have complained about a lost case.

    Do you have to pay of you lose at POPLA? No.



    ************************************************** ************************************************** ********


    The 'IAS' offered by IPC companies is considered far worse than POPLA. It is named and shamed on forum posts regularly as a 'kangaroo court' because even a strong appeal loses in amost every case. The IAS favours the pakring firms and expects a mountain of evidence from the appellant. Do not use mitigating circumstances.

    HO87 explains the problems with the IAS anonymous and apparently unaccountable appeals system here:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=67067144#post67067144

    and this is typical thread where we've discussed the issue; all agree it appears to be a 'kangaroo court':

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5149137

    Here I explain my reasons why I don't recommend trying the appeal at IAS stage, except in very rare cases where you have a slam-dunk winning point:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=68548048&highlight=#post68548048

    However, if it's a lease/hire car and a NTK went to the hire firm first, you CAN potentially win at IAS by cribbing from this IAS win wording:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=67815901#post67815901

    OPINIONS DIFFER - BUT ONE THING IS CLEAR - DO NOT, REPEAT DO NOT PAY £15 FOR THE 'BINDING' IAS VERSION!

    Please don't start a thread asking if you should appeal to the IAS unless you have very rare circumstances that might make yours worth a try.

    I say, after seeing their prima facie case, 90% of people should NOT try an acgtual appeal unless you realise you will almost certainly lose and do it for the right reasons! Do not hand the operator the 'advantage' of an IAS win. But others on here disagree and feel we need IAS losses in order to collect some ludicrous decisions to add to a complaint to the DVLA. Poll and discussion here so make your own mind up but don't expect to win the appeal - BUT WE ARE NOT SAYING PAY!:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5311944


    Here Umkomaas explains your options:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=69418259&highlight=#post69418259


    As always, DO NOT OVERLOOK THE POWER OF A COMPLAINT TO RETAILER/LANDOWNER ABOUT THESE SCUM FIRMS:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4766249

    SO GET COMPLAINING.


    What will happen if I lose at IAS?

    Discussed here and in other threads you can find by searching this forum for 'lost IAS' or similar keywords:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5334100

    What happens would be:

    - you will most likely (unless it's a very litigious PPC) just get a series of hysterical 'pay up or else' debt collector letters, or maybe letters from the PPC themselves - see separate post about ignoring them, below. No need to panic.

    or

    - you might have to defend this if the PPC tries a small claim band they might be buoyed by an IAS 'win' under their belt to brandish in their evidence.

    Here the Parking Prankster suggests that if you are not using the IAS (would rather not have that loss under your belt) a registered keeper should write & explain why not and offer to use the Consumer Ombudsman to resolve the dispute:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/consumer-ombudsman-can-deal-with.html

    Disputes have been raised with the DVLA and the CTSI regarding the IAS, 'kangaroo court' so it is now perfectly legitimate to say that as a consumer you do not wish to use the IAS until the dispute is resolved and suggest an alternative ADR.

    So you could write like this poster has done - but don't expect it to stop the letter chain from daft debt collector teenagers in a call centre, who need to get a real job:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=69450157&highlight=#post69450157



    What will happen if I do not bother with the IAS stage?

    - you will get a series of hysterical 'pay up or else' debt collector letters, or maybe letters from the PPC themselves - see separate post about ignoring them, below.

    or

    - you might be sued...
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 03-05-2016 at 5:18 PM.
    PCN in a private car park in England/Wales? DON'T PAY IT BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    USE THE 'FORUM JUMP' ON RIGHT, GO TO THE PARKING TICKETS FORUM. READ THE 'NEWBIES' THREAD.
    Do NOT read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jan 14, 7:43 PM
    • 37,344 Posts
    • 48,780 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 12th Jan 14, 7:43 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Jan 14, 7:43 PM
    'IGNORE THE DEBT COLLECTORS' STAGE

    DO NOT PANIC!




    CAN'T SAY IT ENOUGH, THIS IS NOT A FORUM FOR TALKING AD INFINITUM ABOUT DEBT COLLECTOR LETTER CHAINS SO PLEASE SPARE US!!!!!!! DO NOT START A NEW THREAD ABOUT DEBT COLLECTOR TEDIUM, PLEASE, JUST SEARCH AND READ WHAT'S ALREADY BEEN SAID.


    READ THIS CLICKY LINK (YES THE BLUE BIT, CLICK ON IT!) AND DO NOT, PLEASE DON'T, START A NEW THREAD ABOUT ROSSENDALES or DEBT RECOVERY PLUS OR ZZPS OR WRIGHT HASSALL!



    Debt Collectors letters or threats of court? Thinking you may be too late to appeal?

    You may get debt collector letters, e.g. 'Debt Recovery Plus' (also using trading names of 'PCS' and 'Zenith') or you might have 'Newlyn', 'Rossendales', 'Control Account', 'CCS Collect' or 'ZZPS' or 'Wright Hassall'.


    THESE ARE NOT BAILIFFS, THEY CANNOT SEND THE BOYS ROUND! THIS IS JUST A LETTER-CHAIN YOU GET IF YOU HAVE NOT APPEALED.
    See this linked explanatory video which will help you to see it for what it is and say 'big deal' about the letters:
    LINK: Is a debt collector the same as a bailiff? - StepChange...


    All the blue wording below includes a link for you to click about the stupid debt collectors so click on the name:

    If you have letters from any debt collector such as Debt Recovery Plus or Zenith or Roxburghe, and are on the face of it, too late to 'appeal', then (if in England/Wales) either ignore them or robustly respond. I recommend ignoring debt collectors as the response leads nowhere.

    As well as the links shown (click on the blue words), here's a strong response to send if the PPC says you are 'too late' and it's now with a debt collector:

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=82895&st=20&p=904431&#entry904 431

    and here's a 'Letter before Claim' drafted to include the Landowner as well, warning them to call their dogs off due to harassment (after 35 DRP letters!):

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=64297676&highlight=#post64297676

    ...and here's a case (link below) where a strong response to ParkingEye when they were nearly at court stage, pulled it back to a POPLA appeal stage even though ParkingEye had already stated (wrongly) that it was 'too late' for POPLA. It is NOT too late for POPLA, insist on it and they can't easily take it to court. You can make their position very difficult - and maybe a POPLA code and rejection letter will follow as it did here. months after the parking event:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=63990978#post63990978

    Keep responding and insisting on a POPLA code and rattling their cage. It can get a charge cancelled, can get a POPLA code and also looks better if it does go to court.

    If the letter threatens court imminently, or a solicitor like 'Wright Hassall(!) or LPC Law, then consider responding to tell the debt collector that the charge is disputed/denied, and send a robust appeal as the registered keeper (NOT DRIVER!) to the PPC as discussed here: http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/ukpc-jump-on-lpc-law-bandwagon.html

    And if you have told the Debt Collector that the 'debt is disputed and denied' and they persist, complain to:
    - The Credit Services Association for breach of this Code: http://www.csa-uk.com/page/codes-and-standards/code-of-practice
    - and you can make a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=63862035&postcount=449
    - and if the debt collection is misleading, uses a firm pretending to be bailiffs, sends fake court papers, does not follow the CSA Code of Practice (linked above) for example, then complain by email (see post 1) to the DVLA about breach of the "KADOE contract": http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4890308

    IF YOU DON'T SEE A LINK TO YOUR DEBT COLLECTOR ABOVE (e.g. ZZPS, DCBL, NEWLYN or ROSSENDALES or others) PLEASE DON'T START YET ANOTHER POINTLESS NEW THREAD ABOUT IGNORING DEBT COLLECTORS BECAUSE FRANKLY THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO ADD TO THIS ADVICE (and there are far too many threads already). Just search for the firm's name and read threads already here.

    IF YOU REALLY WANT TO WASTE HOURS ON IT THEN PLEASE NO NEW THREAD, JUST SEARCH THE PARKING FORUM FOR THEIR NAME AND MAKE A CUPPA AND READ ALL ABOUT THEIR SILLY LETTER CHAINS, AND EITHER SEND ONE ROBUST REPLY OR TOTALLY IGNORE THEM.

    THAT'S ALL.


    KEEP ALL THE LETTERS IN CASE IT BECOMES HARASSMENT, OR IN CASE THE PPC EVER TRY A SMALL CLAIM.


    HTH
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 03-05-2016 at 5:19 PM.
    PCN in a private car park in England/Wales? DON'T PAY IT BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    USE THE 'FORUM JUMP' ON RIGHT, GO TO THE PARKING TICKETS FORUM. READ THE 'NEWBIES' THREAD.
    Do NOT read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jan 14, 7:44 PM
    • 37,344 Posts
    • 48,780 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 12th Jan 14, 7:44 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Jan 14, 7:44 PM
    COMPLAINTS:


    Always complain to the landowner/retailer very quickly and assertively:


    Successful complaints about private parking tickets - how to get them cancelled!

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4766249 Look how easy it can be to get these cancelled by a retailer/hotel/landowner!

    Most fake PCNs can be cancelled if it is a retailer car park, simply by COMPLAINING! If you go for the complaint assertively and quickly you won't even have to bother with any of the above appeals/POPLA stuff!

    Look at the linked thread above - I have given typical contact emails in post #3 - for stores, and tips about who to moan at if it's not a shop on site. Also there's a template 'rant' of a complaint letter to give you the flavour of how angry a customer is entitled to be about this utter harassment, particularly if your only error was taking too long shopping!

    Retail Park with lots of stores? Google it and find the management or landowner contact details.


    ************************************************** ************************************************** ******************

    Complaining about an AOS member (BPA or IPC member, anywhere in the UK):

    Contact details for complaints to the BPA or IPC (as applicable to your PPC) and the DVLA below.

    These are useful resources to influence getting parking charges cancelled, such as when an AOS member has not followed POFA 2012 but is still alleging the keeper is 'liable' or if their signage is missing or if they refuse to give you a POPLA/IAS code, or have clearly breached their applicable Code of Practice:


    DVLA:
    Complain every time to the DVLA if your PPC are faffing around not sending you a POPLA or IAS code even if you appealed in time, or have breached the Code of Practice.

    Point out that any breach of the Code of Practice the PPC is signed up to, breaches the KADOE contract to get DVLA data. State that the matter has been escalated to the CCR team because you have no confidence in the data release team to take such a complaint seriously as it's in the public domain that they have dismissed these issues far too many times recently without so much as even supplying a copy of the DVLA complaints procedure leaflet. State that if your complaint is not resolved properly your intention would be to involve your MP and refer the issue to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=65678397&highlight=#post65678397

    email - ccrt@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

    Customer Complaint Resolution Team
    D16W
    DVLA
    Swansea
    SA6 7JL





    BPA:

    steve.c@britishparking.co.uk
    Steve Clark
    Head of Operational Services
    British Parking Association
    Stuart House
    41-43 Perrymount Road
    Haywards Heath
    West Sussex
    RH16 3BN


    And if your PPC is with the IPC and appears to have breached their Code of Practice, the IPC web-site has the following info about complaints:

    Compliance Monitoring
    
    It is a requirement of all ATA's to have an enforceable Code of Practice. The IPC therefore operates a sanction system in order to encourage compliance.
    
    This includes a complaints procedure which allows people who feel that an operator is not complying with the code to refer matters to us.
    
    The IPC is not able to consider complaints about members unless it is regarding an alleged instance of non-compliance of the Code. Similarly, the IPC are not able to intefere with decisions of Parking Operators in relation to the validity of charges that they issue. Nor will the IPC interfere with or influence in any way, the decisions of the Independent Appeals Service. If you need to refer a complaint to us then please contact us.

    The Independent Parking Committee
    4 The Stables
    Red Cow Yard
    Knutsford
    Cheshire
    WA16 6DG

    IPC email:
    contact@theIPC.info



    We'd recommend email for such matters and you can copy in the PPC to show them you mean business!


    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 23-04-2015 at 2:21 PM.
    PCN in a private car park in England/Wales? DON'T PAY IT BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT

    USE THE 'FORUM JUMP' ON RIGHT, GO TO THE PARKING TICKETS FORUM. READ THE 'NEWBIES' THREAD.
    Do NOT read old advice to ignore, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Crabman
    • By Crabman 25th Jul 14, 10:41 PM
    • 9,478 Posts
    • 6,894 Thanks
    Crabman
    • #6
    • 25th Jul 14, 10:41 PM
    • #6
    • 25th Jul 14, 10:41 PM
    This thread is for general information only.

    Please do not post questions about your parking tickets in this thread.


    For personalised help and guidance from our wonderful forum regulars (for free ) please start your own thread by clicking on this blue button:

    Last edited by Crabman; 16-11-2014 at 11:35 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Savings & Investments, ISAs & Tax-free Savings, Public Transport & Cycling, Motoring and Parking Fines, Tickets & Parking Boards which means I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly & I can move & merge posts there. Board Guides are not moderators & don't read every post. If you spot a contentious or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com

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